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Thread: suicides in novels

  1. #1
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Exclamation suicides in novels

    at which point does suicide concept in novels become the ultimate sweeping weapon to a writer own confessional boot.
    Is there a hidden meaning another agenda behind it?
    I find suicide harrowing in books and the fact that its concept is made famous/infamous in many books is all the most uneasy.
    'Romeo and Juliet' comes to mind 'Love in the Time of Cholera' is another.
    Suicide is dynamically painful and is perhaps the focal point of weakness as far as writing is concerned.
    To write is to create characteristics and ideas and to introduce suicide as an additive dose does the opposite it dismantles the kudos of inventive creativity.
    Killing off a character a work of fiction in a suicide act sounds rather inquisitive. Why would a writer presuppose it to be acceptable or rational when in fact it demonstrates hopelessness an indisposition of characteristics ambivalent to otherwise amenable approachable likeable characters .
    A character tragedy can reajust and start again. Different circumstances make for new changes much awaited for.
    when I think suicide in books I think the 'throw in the towel' expression or giving up is another way of addressing it.

    So the question is this

    Is suicide rational for a story that could hold together beautifully even after a tragic or a loss?
    'Gone With The Wind' is One'. No suicide just separation and time is your pillar.
    Last edited by cacian; 04-24-2013 at 08:11 AM.
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    So you're advocating that we don't write about characters who commit suicide because you find it distasteful. . .

    H

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    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    I am trying or would like to advocate legacy and suicide is not that not all that.
    when one is killed by accident it may be forgiven and could be rectified in other ways but to implicat suicide as th ultimate resort is another subject. I feel it is not ever advocated to terminate one's life but comes across as a more provoked scene. The reader is left feeling inadequate helpless and the thought of it happening and without prior warnings seems extreme radicalism in any story. An end never justifies dying and suicide is not one to be ever justified.
    A reader forms attachment with the characters and so to take it away in such a force and with such depravity, one is aware suicide is a sin in some religions/cultures, unacceptable for many, is bordering on intimidation if not depression for both some readers and the story itself.

    Homicide literature for me is dubious and does not appeal it culminates thoughts of a twisted nature.
    Literature has deviants, the behave badly side, and suicide is the topple of it or the icing in the freezer.
    Last edited by cacian; 04-24-2013 at 08:08 AM.
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    Card-carrying Medievalist Lokasenna's Avatar
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    So... novels should not include anything that encompasses the bleaker end of the emotional range? If suicide is a suitable end for the character, or for the novel, then so be it. World literature would be a damn sight poorer without existential angst -it motivates most things.

    Romeo and Juliet is pretty mawkish anyway, including it's suicide scene. But I suppose, in your world, it should be staged like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EfFEdDU5ko

    Or what about a novel like Mrs Dalloway? God knows, I'm no fan of Mrs Woolf - but her treatment of Spetimus's suicide is one of the few truly remarkable aspects of the novel. His deliberate choice to end his life, and Clarissa's rationalisation of that act as a means of accepting, even embracing, life is poignant and powerful.
    "I should only believe in a God that would know how to dance. And when I saw my devil, I found him serious, thorough, profound, solemn: he was the spirit of gravity- through him all things fall. Not by wrath, but by laughter, do we slay. Come, let us slay the spirit of gravity!" - Nietzsche

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    Ah, High Art indeed

    then again, without suicide and catholic dogma there'd be no one to administer the afterlife LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    Homicide literature for me is dubious and does not appeal it culminates thoughts of a twisted nature.
    Literature has deviants, the behave badly side, and suicide is the topple of it or the icing in the freezer.
    Crystal clear as always.

    In an earlier post you requested that every character in a novel achieve closure so that you weren't left wondering what happened to the guy who appeared briefly in Chapter 4.
    Now you'd also prefer it if nobody got killed.

    Maybe you should stick to reading fairy stories where everybody lives happily ever after.

    H

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    Closure? Yes, case close. LOL
    Cacianation, closurerination, happyeverafterination. Double LOL. A touch of LMAO: Moses in the basket.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    Ah, High Art indeed

    then again, without suicide and catholic dogma there'd be no one to administer the afterlife LOL
    It is impossible to administer an afterlife and that's precisely why the BS came to be Catholic in the western "world."

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    The Ghost of Laszlo Jamf islandclimber's Avatar
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    Over the past few months you've posted threads insisting that: only positive, uplifting literature is acceptable; sexuality in literature is morally reprehensible and tasteless; an author must give a reader closure with regards to all characters in a story; obscene/vulgar language has no place in literature; and now this little idiotic bit about suicide being the refuge of deviants in literature, and homicide literature being dubious. This is to mention only a few. Is reality to heavy for you? How do you live in this world, where people are violent and obscene, where the grotesque and tragic are commonplace, where suicide and homicide are common acts? Or maybe all of this is okay in life, but not in art? Hypocrisy?

    It seems you enjoy trolling in this section? Close to every day there is another of these threads started expressing the most inane and myopic "ars poetica" possible. What's left in your world, after all these cuts? Fairy tales? Children's books? I certainly cannot think of a single work of literature that fulfills your particular aesthetic. If I were to somehow find a book that was the culmination of your reprehensible ideals, it would be a sad day indeed, as I would be forced into that unsavoury position of book-burning villain.

    This thread is stupid. Entirely stupid. Suicide is a part of life. Deal with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandclimber View Post
    Over the past few months you've posted threads insisting that: only positive, uplifting literature is acceptable; sexuality in literature is morally reprehensible and tasteless; an author must give a reader closure with regards to all characters in a story; obscene/vulgar language has no place in literature; and now this little idiotic bit about suicide being the refuge of deviants in literature, and homicide literature being dubious. This is to mention only a few. Is reality to heavy for you? How do you live in this world, where people are violent and obscene, where the grotesque and tragic are commonplace, where suicide and homicide are common acts? Or maybe all of this is okay in life, but not in art? Hypocrisy?

    It seems you enjoy trolling in this section? Close to every day there is another of these threads started expressing the most inane and myopic "ars poetica" possible. What's left in your world, after all these cuts? Fairy tales? Children's books? I certainly cannot think of a single work of literature that fulfills your particular aesthetic. If I were to somehow find a book that was the culmination of your reprehensible ideals, it would be a sad day indeed, as I would be forced into that unsavoury position of book-burning villain.

    This thread is stupid. Entirely stupid. Suicide is a part of life. Deal with it.
    Let's not go to the other extreme on account of Cacian's ineffectiveness overall. She/he is not trolling. You give this person too much credit as an opponent. She/he is out to anihilate any thougth that does not fit the configurations wanted in an impossible laissez faire. "Let it be. There will be an answer."
    And "it's blowing in the wind."
    "Imagine..."

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    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafolini View Post
    Let's not go to the other extreme on account of Cacian's ineffectiveness overall. She/he is not trolling. You give this person too much credit as an opponent. She/he is out to anihilate any thougth that does not fit the configurations wanted in an impossible laissez faire. "Let it be. There will be an answer."
    And "it's blowing in the wind."
    "Imagine..."
    Hi cafo I am a she. I thought you of all people knew that anyway I know you are a HE see

    Quote Originally Posted by islandclimber View Post
    Over the past few months you've posted threads insisting that: only positive, uplifting literature is acceptable; sexuality in literature is morally reprehensible and tasteless; an author must give a reader closure with regards to all characters in a story; obscene/vulgar language has no place in literature; and now this little idiotic bit about suicide being the refuge of deviants in literature, and homicide literature being dubious. This is to mention only a few. Is reality to heavy for you? How do you live in this world, where people are violent and obscene, where the grotesque and tragic are commonplace, where suicide and homicide are common acts? Or maybe all of this is okay in life, but not in art? Hypocrisy?

    It seems you enjoy trolling in this section? Close to every day there is another of these threads started expressing the most inane and myopic "ars poetica" possible. What's left in your world, after all these cuts? Fairy tales? Children's books? I certainly cannot think of a single work of literature that fulfills your particular aesthetic. If I were to somehow find a book that was the culmination of your reprehensible ideals, it would be a sad day indeed, as I would be forced into that unsavoury position of book-burning villain.

    This thread is stupid. Entirely stupid. Suicide is a part of everyday life. Deal with it.
    Hi islandclimber I can assure you stupidity is more then part of everyday life too. Suicide is not and one must stand by it to eradicate it. I cannot possibly accept suicide when I know that its reality is more gruesome then dubious.
    Why is it then some accept everything and others don't? I read with an open mind and when I do I tell myself or others about it.
    Just because literature consumes it does not mean I will. Literature is subjective let's not forget and inquisition over its content is part of it. If we are not responsive to materials we are letting ourselves in then we are not doing something right. Books need to develop and take a turn for the better and so whilst one reads one ponders. That is my idea of reading. Writing then comes next naturally.
    PS.
    I did laugh at the expression Book-Burning-Villain. It sounds like an incredible character in a story to be had LOL
    it may never try
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    stupidity is more then part of everyday life too. Suicide is not
    Sadly this is nowhere near the truth...

    If stories had nothing bad ever happen to a character, then they would be very boring indeed (although nothing but doom and misery occurring in a book would also get tedious).

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    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volya View Post
    Sadly this is nowhere near the truth...

    If stories had nothing bad ever happen to a character, then they would be very boring indeed (although nothing but doom and misery occurring in a book would also get tedious).
    Hi Volya nice to see you back.
    Boredom is depression and depression is a kind of a trigger gotten at the end of a very high consumption of hypes. After reading a book for example that I am thinking I am enjoying to then hit these feelings with suicide at the end of the story is sheer boredom to me.
    There is a certain detachment of surreal versus real when a story suggests suicides within its frame of mind . I feel this is as close as it gets to the true grim and grind of our immediate reality. Why cross a book with that?
    Last edited by cacian; 04-24-2013 at 02:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    Hi cafo I am a she. I thought you of all people knew that anyway I know you are a HE see
    Okay, I'll buy that, if only for my respect for one or the other.

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    Registered User Calidore's Avatar
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    I think most often the purpose of suicide in a story is to show the effect on the other characters. I agree with you, cacian, that simply ending a story with the main character's suicide would be boring, as it resolves nothing. In Romeo and Juliet, however, their suicides result in the ending of their families' long-standing feud.
    You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Mahatma Gandhi

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    Internal nebulae TheFifthElement's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calidore View Post
    I think most often the purpose of suicide in a story is to show the effect on the other characters. I agree with you, cacian, that simply ending a story with the main character's suicide would be boring, as it resolves nothing.
    You've clearly never read anything by Mishima.
    Want to know what I think about books? Check out https://biisbooks.wordpress.com/

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