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Thread: Should Rhyming Poets Be Castrated?

  1. #16
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    I have to disagree fondly. I love rhyming because it free words from their meanings. It is the best experience I have ever had in language.
    A word becomes meaningless and the at the same time allows the reader to imagine many different meaning to it. It is not about the sense of a word it is about the possibilities of many words in a word. I love rhyming poetry for that. It is just like music without words. A tune where one can get free/
    loose with the sound rather then the scripts. I consider this very important for the intellect.
    So I do not want the meaning I want to be able to imagine new meanings. You have got to love rhyming for that.
    It is all about a sense of liberation rhyming poetry is. If you do not like it well.... that is it.

    I must admit Cacian I usually haven't a clue what you are on about in your poems. But I always find them interesting.
    ay up

  2. #17
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Haha prendrelemick I thin it is meant to be misunderstood, not meant to be taken literally, but for all the good reasons. I thank you for your kind words.
    Last edited by cacian; 02-05-2013 at 04:37 AM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  3. #18
    Rhyming often goes naturally, spontaneously, flowing in its natural course uninterruptedly beyond strenuous scholarly disciplines. Rap for instance is not a serious exercise and it flows from the bottom of the heart. When I mean rhyming is not wielding complex and intricate classical metering. I am talking about the way songs are written the way Bob Nylon or John Lennon did or the way nursery rhymes go

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by osho View Post
    Rhyming often goes naturally, spontaneously, flowing in its natural course uninterruptedly beyond strenuous scholarly disciplines. Rap for instance is not a serious exercise and it flows from the bottom of the heart. When I mean rhyming is not wielding complex and intricate classical metering. I am talking about the way songs are written the way Bob Nylon or John Lennon did or the way nursery rhymes go
    Bob Nylon? Or Bob Dylan?

    I have no problem with anyone using rhyme as long as it complements the poem - Sassoon included (and Aunt Shecky for the record). I have even posted rhyming poetry on here myself.

    But 90% of newbies posting their first attempts at poetry on here more often than not use rhyme to the detriment of reason. There are dozens of poems posted that appear to have been created by a rhyming dictionary rather than a human in possession of a functioning brain. Their efforts are about as far removed from 'spontaneous' as one can get.

    It's the tail wagging the dog syndrome. Somewhere in their misguided desire to become serious poets they have assumed all poems have to rhyme - so if their dross rhymes it must be poetry.

    H

    PS - castration seems a little extreme. . . and what about the 'Sisters who Rhyme'??

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by hillwalker View Post
    Bob Nylon? Or Bob Dylan?

    I have no problem with anyone using rhyme as long as it complements the poem - Sassoon included (and Aunt Shecky for the record). I have even posted rhyming poetry on here myself.

    But 90% of newbies posting their first attempts at poetry on here more often than not use rhyme to the detriment of reason. There are dozens of poems posted that appear to have been created by a rhyming dictionary rather than a human in possession of a functioning brain. Their efforts are about as far removed from 'spontaneous' as one can get.

    It's the tail wagging the dog syndrome. Somewhere in their misguided desire to become serious poets they have assumed all poems have to rhyme - so if their dross rhymes it must be poetry.

    H

    PS - castration seems a little extreme. . . and what about the 'Sisters who Rhyme'??

    It was Dylan. You told something unheard of - the dictionary doing rhyming jobs.. It is really shocking to hear that computers write poetry and rhyme them. Human brains are going inert, dull, non-functioning. Our world has come to a deserted hill of ashes and dry-bones and knuckles. I do not see hope. There is a hazy path and I do not know who and what guides our posterity or myself in the days. Computerized poetry! Castration is close to it and I have to qualify myself to know man-made poetry from machinated versions. How to discern it? I am confused. I have to think twice before writing critiques.

    You are an eye opener H

  6. #21
    Don't get too disheartened. I'm not suggesting the computer wrote the poem - only that the writer wrote his first line:

    'The moon was shining in the sky' for instance - then he searches a rhyming dictionary for a word that rhymes with 'sky' and makes up the second line so that it fits.

    Perhaps something along the lines of I poked my finger in my eye.'

    How to discern it? It's easy - their poetry is stiff and emotionless, and usually painful to read. Also, it makes absolutely no sense most of the time.

    H

  7. #22

  8. #23
    Thanks for that. I've actually heard of internal rhyme and use it quite frequently.

    H

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by osho View Post
    It was Dylan. You told something unheard of - the dictionary doing rhyming jobs.. It is really shocking to hear that computers write poetry and rhyme them. Human brains are going inert, dull, non-functioning. Our world has come to a deserted hill of ashes and dry-bones and knuckles. I do not see hope. There is a hazy path and I do not know who and what guides our posterity or myself in the days. Computerized poetry! Castration is close to it and I have to qualify myself to know man-made poetry from machinated versions. How to discern it? I am confused. I have to think twice before writing critiques.

    You are an eye opener H
    Eh, how so? Rhyming dictionaries are quite old, there is chinese rhyming dictionaries over 1000 years. I recall a description of a dialogue between Borges and Casares where they were translating MacBeath and consult to one. If Borges can use one ,why not anyone else? Of course, it has more how the person uses it than the fact they used it.

  10. #25
    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCamilo View Post
    Eh, how so? Rhyming dictionaries are quite old, there is chinese rhyming dictionaries over 1000 years. I recall a description of a dialogue between Borges and Casares where they were translating MacBeath and consult to one. If Borges can use one ,why not anyone else? Of course, it has more how the person uses it than the fact they used it.
    Todo bem Camillo?

    Quiero a visa para morar la em Brasil! Carnivaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaal!!!!!!! Que sorte tem voce ser Brasileiro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Falar a verdade - queiro morar la em Brasil - mas a immigrcao e muito complicado!


    Even Hillwalker is against rhyme in poetry! Yeah, the rhyme in poetry is long dead.
    "...the ramblings of a narcissistic, self-obsessed, deranged mind."
    My poetry & other stuff on Amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr...or=Wolf Larsen

  11. #26
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
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    Poetry was devised as a device to make it easier to remember than prose. There fore poetry has rhyme and meter, which prose lacks. It is my opnion that "poetry" that lacks rhyma and meter is simply poorly punctuated prose.

  12. #27
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    Nah, Poetry was devised to be a imitation of music, nothing to do with being easier to remember than prose. Homer was not even a rhyming poet, for example and several traditions didn't even had rhyming predominance.

    Anyways, Wolf, Brazil is nice. All world is nice. Some people may dislike it, Argies for example. But then, they are on their own to like Argentina more (no idea why). So it is Rhyme - after all in Art, nothing is dead. Tomorrow, when you feel that nobody recalls the rhymes, then someone will have a new idea and rhyme to challenge the status quo.

  13. #28
    The Wolf of Larsen WolfLarsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    Poetry was devised as a device to make it easier to remember than prose. There fore poetry has rhyme and meter, which prose lacks. It is my opnion that "poetry" that lacks rhyma and meter is simply poorly punctuated prose.
    Nonsense! Poetry is whiskey, and prose is beer. Poetry is espresso, and prose is watered-down Americano. Poetry is a fistfight, prose is a tense discussion. Poetry is World War III, prose is a diplomatic crisis. Poetry is having sex 30 times a weekend, and prose is having sex 1.5 times a week like most Americans.

    And rhyme all you want, but the rhyme makes poetry sound like a stale cliché.

    And Camillo, I'm sorry but not all the world is nice. I have been to 50 countries. India is amazing, but not a pleasant place to live, I tried to live there. The best countries are Brazil, Greece (before the crisis), Italy, and the Netherlands, in my opinion.

    And perhaps you are right Camillo. Perhaps the rhyme will come back someday. Many modern artists, for example, have been inspired by medieval art. But, the rhyme does not help contemporary poetry for now. It is too cliché. It must die before it is reborn. Actually, it is already dead. Many contemporary "poets" just don't realize it.
    "...the ramblings of a narcissistic, self-obsessed, deranged mind."
    My poetry & other stuff on Amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr...or=Wolf Larsen

  14. #29
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfLarsen View Post
    Nonsense! Poetry is whiskey, and prose is beer. Poetry is espresso, and prose is watered-down Americano. Poetry is a fistfight, prose is a tense discussion. Poetry is World War III, prose is a diplomatic crisis. Poetry is having sex 30 times a weekend, and prose is having sex 1.5 times a week like most Americans.

    And rhyme all you want, but the rhyme makes poetry sound like a stale cliché.


    Think what you like, but the denial of facts won't get you anywhere.

  15. #30
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfLarsen View Post
    Should Rhyming Poets Be Castrated?
    A fair & balanced essay by Wolf Larsen

    Poetry that rhymes sounds like nails on blackboard, no?
    Poetry that rhymes is the ultimate act of sadistic torture, and something needs to be done about it!
    So what exactly should we do about poetry that rhymes?
    And what should we do about people that say, "technically that's not an essay?"
    And what should we do about politicians that promise to change things, and then don't change anything at all!
    And what should we do about dogs that bark all night long and keep us awake?
    Clearly, the answer is NOT castration. The answer is to EAT them! After all, dog is delicious!
    So, instead of castrating poets that rhyme I advocate that we eat them.
    You say that eating human flesh is abominable? But there is nothing more abominable than poetry that rhymes! Making a stew or a steak or a hamburger out of poets that rhyme is clearly the civilized thing to do! Between cannibalism and poetry that rhymes clearly cannibalism is the lesser evil.
    On second thoughts WolfLarsen I would much rather call it rythmic poetry. A peotry that has rythm.
    As to your experiencing nails on blackbroard feelings it could only be as a reaction to something you are not used to. They do say any reaction is better then none. Maybe it is saying something about the state of our minds that it has been dormant for a very long time . A rough awakening is seriously better then a smooth one. Traumatic at first but solid in the long run.
    I believe that to control a langauge is to control all. Rhythm freezes a meaning and launches new others. It is liberating to liberate the sense and meaning of language. It allows of creativity and movement.
    Last edited by cacian; 02-06-2013 at 04:32 AM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

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