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Thread: Richard III

  1. #1
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    Richard III

    We will finally find out today if they've dug him up from a car park in Leicester.

    Background:

    Richard was killed in battle at the end of the Wars of the Roses, but the eventual resting place of his body was unknown - or forgotten.
    Archeologists have been studying old maps and reading accounts of the battle of Bosworth field for years, and finally decended on a car park in Leicester. To everyone's amazement they found a 500 year old skeleton with battle injuries and a crooked back. It's DNA has been compared with that of a Canadian decendent of Richard's sister. The results will be revealed at 10 am GMT today.

    Richard is one of the charismatic Kings of England, (thanks mainly to Shakespeare) he was of the age when Kings had to lead from the front and risk all on the battlefield.
    ay up

  2. #2
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    It is ironic it is in a car park and not in a castle. I thought kings and castles went hand in hand but there you go a car park of all places.
    I find it rather intriguing/strange the body of an important king lays burired in an unknown place. What were they thinking of?
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  3. #3
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    They had a fair idea he was there. The car park is on the site of Greyfriars abbey. Henry VII and subsequent Tudor Kings would not've wanted Richard commemorated or remembered in any way because they were sensetive to the charge that they were usurpers. But for Shakespeare he would probably have been a minor figure, he was only King for 2 years, but he was depicted in a strong characature of a wicked murderer and was famous for infamy.



    Edit: Well well, for once no big let down. They are "beyond reasonable doubt"Richard's remains.

    The story of the discovery is on Channel 4 tonight at 9.00pm.
    Last edited by prendrelemick; 02-04-2013 at 06:54 AM.
    ay up

  4. #4
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Great stuff prendrelemick. I think the last time I watched a programm about a king of England is when they decided that the real king of England as oppose to Queen Elizabeth today lives in Australia in the outbacks. Today they think there is one buried in a car park. A sad thing of event to think Royalty had to end up in this state. Anyway prendrelemick did you see that programm I am talking by Tony Robinson he is in Time Team as well?
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  5. #5
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    I did see that, but I reckon the Crown belongs to whoever grabs it and holds on to it.

    In fact Henry VII had no Royal claim to the throne at all, he was the grandson of Owen Tudor and Katherine - Henry V's widow. And their marriage, if it took place at all was secret.

    However, read the History books, he was King of England for 24 years. (Marrying Elizabeth of York helped.)




    UPDATE Head of Leicester University says "I love it when a Plan tagenet comes together"
    Last edited by prendrelemick; 02-04-2013 at 09:55 AM.
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  6. #6
    Card-carrying Medievalist Lokasenna's Avatar
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    Now that we've got the body, I want to know what we're going to do with it. I'll bet there will be some people demanding a state funeral for him.
    "I should only believe in a God that would know how to dance. And when I saw my devil, I found him serious, thorough, profound, solemn: he was the spirit of gravity- through him all things fall. Not by wrath, but by laughter, do we slay. Come, let us slay the spirit of gravity!" - Nietzsche

  7. #7
    Registered User Calidore's Avatar
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    My favorite comments so far are the person who observed that since the battle was nearby, Richard would logically have parked there; and the person who totaled the fees and announced that he owed a bit over 3.5 million pounds for the time he's lain there.
    You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Mahatma Gandhi

  8. #8
    TobeFrank Paulclem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
    Now that we've got the body, I want to know what we're going to do with it. I'll bet there will be some people demanding a state funeral for him.
    I bet there will. He's going to be interred in Leicester Cathedral.

    There's a documentary on Channel 4 tonight as Mick said. It should be good.

  9. #9
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    If I should die, think only this of me: That there's some corner of a council car park. That is for ever England.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

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    Registered User kev67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulclem View Post
    I bet there will. He's going to be interred in Leicester Cathedral.

    There's a documentary on Channel 4 tonight as Mick said. It should be good.
    Fair enough, they can't really stick him back under the car park. You can't really put a King of England's bones in a showcase in a museum. However, he was a bad man, so you can't put him in Westminster Abbey neither.

    When are they going to do the DNA tests on the princes?
    According to Aldous Huxley, D.H. Lawrence once said that Balzac was 'a gigantic dwarf', and in a sense the same is true of Dickens.
    Charles Dickens, by George Orwell

  11. #11
    TobeFrank Paulclem's Avatar
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    Yes - the science and history was interesting. There seemed to be a good marry up of the evidence and the accounts from the time. The woman from the Richard III society was a pain though.

  12. #12
    TobeFrank Paulclem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev67 View Post
    Fair enough, they can't really stick him back under the car park. You can't really put a King of England's bones in a showcase in a museum. However, he was a bad man, so you can't put him in Westminster Abbey neither.

    When are they going to do the DNA tests on the princes?
    They were all bad weren't they. It was Kingship and legitimacy by force. Richard probably had the Princes killed. Henry Tudor had no claim to the crown but took it anyway. His gang was bigger than Richard's.

  13. #13
    Registered User kev67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulclem View Post
    They were all bad weren't they. It was Kingship and legitimacy by force. Richard probably had the Princes killed. Henry Tudor had no claim to the crown but took it anyway. His gang was bigger than Richard's.
    I am not sure they were all bad. A lot of them were bad. I remember reading some tourist thing in Guildford about how a woman had sued a King for extracting too much water from a river. The judge found in her favour. I thought the King, whoever he was, could not have been that bad if he was prepared to accept a legal ruling against him.
    According to Aldous Huxley, D.H. Lawrence once said that Balzac was 'a gigantic dwarf', and in a sense the same is true of Dickens.
    Charles Dickens, by George Orwell

  14. #14
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    York Minster are claiming they should have the body, and I expect Gloucester and Westminster would like him too. Perhaps they should follow tradition and send bits of him throughout the kingdom encased in golden reliquaries for the tourists to pay homage to and swell the church coffers.
    ay up

  15. #15
    Registered User billl's Avatar
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    Please keep the updates and commentary coming. I mean, I don't have illusions of this dragging on for 20 consecutive days of new flashes, but reading you guys's reactions conveys more cultural nuance than the AP News reports, which I'm pretty sure are done with this story after just one day.

    A king's body! What to do!

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