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Thread: art versus nature

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    art versus nature

    art versus nature-what are the basic points of the debate?

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    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    well nature is in parallel with beauty and perfection and art is in parallel with the concept. When art meets nature it completes its full aspect of mesmorization the naked eye could ever be bestowed upon. In other words whilst nature distributes art attributes. Enhancement without the technology bits.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

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    The ill difference between art and nature is an arrogance, whether biological or spiritual or both.

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    King of Dreams MorpheusSandman's Avatar
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    Depends on what debate we're talking about. Art seems to be the method by which we express our interpretation of nature.
    "As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light of meaning in the darkness of mere being." --Carl Gustav Jung

    "To absent friends, lost loves, old gods, and the season of mists; and may each and every one of us always give the devil his due." --Neil Gaiman; The Sandman Vol. 4: Season of Mists

    "I'm on my way, from misery to happiness today. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh" --The Proclaimers

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    Mimesis, a stress between the two concepts

    Well, That is a very important subject deep into the literary world, into the arts world overall and to be true. Nevertheless, It looks to me there is a main point, which is the concept of mimesis, the art of imitating, that is, the art of "mimos", a greek word to express either somone who imitates as a trivial matter which he scenifies to make laugh, to empathise, etc. or also the actors' job, the ones who play a role in a storytelling brought to the scenaries, to sum up, the art of resembling, the artifice of what somebody or something looks like on a different dimension or ehtos (brought to the screen, to the paper, to the scene, to the canvas..., and music would be another matter). In history, both Plato and Aristotle wrote about this tension, that act of representing what sorrounds us, nature, reality, conscious state, call it as you wish.

    Nevertheless, both philosophers considered that the truth (pay attention that this is a new and disturbing concept) belonged to the philosophical text and beauty, stylism and persusion was the main target of dramas, 'tragos', tragedies. They talked according to 'recital poetry on the scenary', which is theater, basically the art of imitating doomed circumstances from real life, a mirror in fornt of the trusthworthy reality, so nature. Consequently, they thought art was a pale imitation of this nature. It was the imitation from an imitation, a second version, a far away copy from the 'idea made by God', which, in addition, was made from the copy of the idea, not straightly from the same God's idea. I hope people is still awake up to this point. Leave you heads up to the keyboard and forget I'm going to tell you any joke. I don't remember anyone at this moment and the ones I do like are the obscene ones. Well, If you are interested in my view (and I suppose as important as that is in my way of telling things) I will continue next time. This is going to be some kind of delivery in installments.
    Last edited by jayat; 02-13-2013 at 03:28 PM.

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    As far as I am concerned, to differentiate between art and nature is a stupidity. Don't ask me to explain, getting entangled with art over nature or nature over art. There is not a single thing that isn't natural, including the stupidity.
    Last edited by cafolini; 02-13-2013 at 04:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafolini View Post
    As far as I am concerned, to differentiate between art and nature is a stupidity. Don't ask me to explain, getting entangled with art over nature or nature over art. There is not a single thing that isn't natural, including the stupidity.
    So maybe you need a new concerning about it and before concluding subjects with this sort of I don't know whether it is apathy or bad mood, you should read more and be more humble when answering. It's not the first time you give an answer of this "kind" (to call it somehow). You should pay attention to the things people share by writing here, which some of them are really, at least teaching.

    I talk to you so bluntly because attitude is everything here on earth planet and you should know your statements decked out with this kind of arrogance and self-sufficient sharpness don't say anything in your favour at all, just on the contrary. Don't be ludicrous saying that the difference between art and nature is a stupidity and first think about if there is some kind of difference and, as important as this, why there is. Maybe, and just maybe then, some essential questions would pin up in your I don't know if closed or childish mind, better tell it to me next time instead of rubbing rubbish on this webside.

    To end with this clarification, I invite you don't take these words of mine as a reprimand but as a good piece of advice to go through life. Take it into account and don't be angry with my words but with yourself.

    P.S. This afternnon I will continue my exposition.
    Last edited by jayat; 02-14-2013 at 09:24 AM. Reason: clarifying things

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    Quote Originally Posted by jayat View Post
    So maybe you need a new concerning about it and before concluding subjects with this sort of I don't know whether it is apathy or bad mood, you should read more and be more humble when answering. It's not the first time you give an answer of this "kind" (to call it somehow). You should pay attention to the things people share by writing here, which some of them are really, at least teaching.

    I talk to you so bluntly because attitude is everything here on earth planet and you should know your statements decked out with this kind of arrogance and self-sufficient sharpness don't say anything in your favour at all, just on the contrary. Don't be ludicrous saying that the difference between art and nature is a stupidity and first think about if there is some kind of difference and, as important as this, why there is. Maybe, and just maybe then, some essential questions would pin up in your I don't know if closed or childish mind, better tell it to me next time instead of rubbing rubbish on this webside.

    To end with this clarification, I invite you don't take these words of mine as a reprimand but as a good piece of advice to go through life. Take it into account and don't be angry with my words but with yourself.

    P.S. This afternnon I will continue my exposition.
    It will be more obvious when you finish your exposition that you are having a good life. LOL

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    what a nonsense...! by God's light....What does my life have to do about what I told you...? I didn't expect my words had taken root in you but either you were so obtuse. Well, I don't want to lose any more time and patience with a childish, resentful kid...Have fun you too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jayat View Post
    what a nonsense...! by God's light....What does my life have to do about what I told you...? I didn't expect my words had taken root in you but either you were so obtuse. Well, I don't want to lose any more time and patience with a childish, resentful kid...Have fun you too...
    Beware of the man who says that what he says has nothing to do with his own life. I think the poor man is mentally vey ill. Case closed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitman View Post
    art versus nature-what are the basic points of the debate?
    I think I’m helping to almost bring up ideas around the main subject, the stress between art and nature. If it isn’t, tell it to me. This is a debate.

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    So, once we have understood that the relation art-versus-nature comes through the concept of truth probably we would have lightened the path a bit. Actually, Plato warned people be on guard against the poetics seductions, because, as Socrates also in early and lost times maintained, “The poet has no place in our idea of God”. So, we know that philosophical text occupied a superior level in Greek thinkers’ approvals or considerations. The people, the society, it’s another issue. They suffered, laughed, got sad, got angry, showed no emotions or cried of joy when watching a performance. It depends on the circumstances represented on the scene but overall they adored them.

    We must pay attention at the fact that Plato was warning people not to go to the theaters because the evil dwelt right there meanwhile ‘vulgus’ enjoyed it. However, who were not going to feel anger when Antigona cries for her dead father, Polyneices, who she cannot bury due to the rules made for the losers in the battlefield by Creon’s decision?...and the law (a kings’ decision no less) is made to be followed although it came from a man like Creon. It happens that nature, human feelings, what the instinct tells us to do is to empathise, which is a new concept between art and nature. The simulation (bring the nature to the art or to the artistic field) in which we can feel represented too, we can feel those actors right there are ourselves, so there will be no ‘characters’, no ‘masks’ on the scene but ourselves, suffering, laughing, feeling anger…So a good dramatist would be the one who were able to rub the borderline between spectators and actors, between the rows and the scene, between nature and art. To end with it for today, we do have several terms or concepts: mimesis, truth, performances or representations (that is make it ‘present’ again in from the spectators eyes and minds), and empathy. Finally, I will deliver the next installment maybe tomorrow.
    Last edited by jayat; 02-14-2013 at 02:53 PM. Reason: mimesis 2n part

  13. #13
    Registered User My2cents's Avatar
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    Art: illusion

    Nature: illusion (?)

    According to Plato, knowledge is justified true belief. Not necessarily, Gettier counters. Dumb luck or coincidence can just as well reveal the truth and/or lead to knowledge. So how do we know that what we know is in fact truth/knowledge? We don't and that's the fun and scary part of it. Is nature a mere figment of my imagination, and if so, why mine and not yours? The answer, as Bob Dylan says, is blowing in the winds.

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    Ultimate answers of destiny are definitely blowing in the wind. But I know that if I'm drinking milk, that's true. Only finality is blowing in the wind. May your cons stay away from your fusions.

  15. #15
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    I love art especially when it tells me nature is nice and I love it even more when it tells me man is better for it.
    nature is the valley the hub of art civilisation. It flourishes amongst the seasons the winds the skies and the seas. Without nature art ceases to bail sense. I often sketch with nature in mind. The painting may not appear to hold a physical attachment to nature or a nuance of it but it often is the background on which I paint or draw. It is invisible to the naked eye but it is there still. I see it others may and some may not. Art is recreational in the sense that it finds it origin in nature and flaunts its sentimentality about nature in a way that is so subtle that one could feel it emanating from it. Art is a colour that I attach to the wind and let it fly to find its roots amongst the foliage and the bluebells of nature.
    Colour to colour and art to art never a sound floated so proud. Natural is what art does best and best is what art stems from.
    Last edited by cacian; 03-22-2013 at 01:24 PM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

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