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Thread: Was Orwell ever a fascist?

  1. #1
    Registered User kev67's Avatar
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    Was Orwell ever a fascist?

    Well, was he?


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    According to Aldous Huxley, D.H. Lawrence once said that Balzac was 'a gigantic dwarf', and in a sense the same is true of Dickens.
    Charles Dickens, by George Orwell

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    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev67 View Post
    Well, was he?


    Well considering he fought against and was wounded by them in the Spanish Civil War, I think the answer must be no.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

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    Two Steps Into Exile Shevek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Miller View Post
    Well considering he fought against and was wounded by them in the Spanish Civil War, I think the answer must be no.
    Not to mention his thoughts on fascism and nationalism more generally.... why would anyone think he was a fascist?

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    I believe Charlie Chaplin had a similar moustache, and I don't think he was a fascist either.

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    I don't think he was a fascist. But I think he thought fascism could take over. He didn't see the impossibility of its utter stupidity being a long term state. Either that or he was an English double agent admiting the idiotic power of the fascist in order to entangle them in the ridiculous proposition of which they were capable. That's more likely.
    Moves like that were not uncommon in the UK. The Episcopal church, for example, declared itself Catholic but not Roman Catholic, or Greek Orthodox. Thus they took on a platform that made the Roman Catholic fascists look ridiculos. Venice was finished and, of course, Spain also, not to speak of the vestiges in Germany. Today, the Episcopal church is an antifascist, antiracist institution and here to stay.

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    Registered User kev67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volya View Post
    I believe Charlie Chaplin had a similar moustache, and I don't think he was a fascist either.
    Good point, was Orwell a Charlie Chaplin fan then?
    According to Aldous Huxley, D.H. Lawrence once said that Balzac was 'a gigantic dwarf', and in a sense the same is true of Dickens.
    Charles Dickens, by George Orwell

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    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev67 View Post
    Good point, was Orwell a Charlie Chaplin fan then?
    Here's Orwell on Chaplin's The Great dictator


    Speaking of Chaplin in his role of The Great Dictator, George Orwell asks “What is Chaplin’s peculiar gift?” It is his power to stand for a sort of concentrated essence of the common man, for the ineradicable belief in decency that exists in the hearts of ordinary people, at any rate in the West. We live in a period in which democracy is almost everywhere in retreat, supermen in control of three-quarters of the world, liberty explained away by sleek professors, Jew-baiting defended by pacifists. And yet everywhere, the common man sticks obstinately to the beliefs that he derives from the Christian culture.”

    --Film Review, The Great Dictator in Time & Tide, Dec 21, 1940



    But here's Orwell 1n 1949.

    The recent evidence about Orwell's life seems to show that our greatest modern political writer could embody glaringly contradictory positions.

    Only four years ago, his image as Left-wing campaigner against state oppression took something of a battering when it was revealed that in 1949 he had secretly passed to the Government a list of 37 figures in public life whom he regarded as Soviet sympathisers.

    On this list were names such as the film star Charlie Chaplin, the actor Michael Redgrave and the historian E. H. Carr.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2DziEKAKI
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    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

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    Registered User kev67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Miller View Post


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2DziEKAKI
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    Not a bad essay for the Daily Mail.
    According to Aldous Huxley, D.H. Lawrence once said that Balzac was 'a gigantic dwarf', and in a sense the same is true of Dickens.
    Charles Dickens, by George Orwell

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    Dance Magic Dance OrphanPip's Avatar
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    If you had to define Orwell's political leanings, he was a democratic socialist who mellowed in later life to a moderate labour orientation.

    Also, Orwell had that toothbrush moustache in the 20s before people really knew who Hitler was, and it wasn't associated with fascism. It was a relatively popular style of moustache (Lord knows why) before Hitler kind of ruined it.
    Last edited by OrphanPip; 12-03-2012 at 01:06 PM.
    "If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
    - Margaret Atwood

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    Registered User kev67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanPip View Post
    Also, Orwell had that toothbrush moustache in the 20s before people really knew who Hitler was, and it wasn't associated with fascism. It was a relatively popular style of moustache (Lord knows why) before Hitler kind of ruined it.
    Well, it has just been Movember. Perhaps it is time to rehabilitate the style. Or maybe not...
    According to Aldous Huxley, D.H. Lawrence once said that Balzac was 'a gigantic dwarf', and in a sense the same is true of Dickens.
    Charles Dickens, by George Orwell

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    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev67 View Post
    Well, it has just been Movember. Perhaps it is time to rehabilitate the style. Or maybe not...
    The way things are going, it might be due for a comeback.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Miller View Post
    The way things are going, it might be due for a comeback.
    Yeah. With you as commander in chief. ROFLMAO!!

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    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafolini View Post
    Yeah. With you as commander in chief. ROFLMAO!!
    Rolling on the floor eh? Thanks for the warning, I'll have to look where I'm treading.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

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    "As far as my personal preferences went I would have liked to join the Anarchists." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia page 116.

    "In every country in the world a huge tribe of party-hacks and sleek little professors are busy 'proving' that Socialism means no more than a planned state-capitalism with grab-motive left intact. But fortunately there also exists a vision of Socialism quite different from this." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia page 104.

    "If I had understood the situation a bit better I should probably have joined the Anarchists." George Orwell - The Collected Essays; Volume I page 289.

    Seriously doubt that he was ever a fascist.

  15. #15
    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    He wasn't.

    Orwell hated fascism above all, which leads to the answer to this:


    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Miller View Post
    ...The recent evidence about Orwell's life seems to show that our greatest modern political writer could embody glaringly contradictory positions.

    Only four years ago, his image as Left-wing campaigner against state oppression took something of a battering when it was revealed that in 1949 he had secretly passed to the Government a list of 37 figures in public life whom he regarded as Soviet sympathisers....
    The article misses a ridiculously obvious point - Orwell knew that the USSR in 1949 bore no relationship to actual communism, and had become a fascist state. Given his authoring both 1984 and Animal Farm, it would be more surprising if he hadn't turned people in whom he suspected of collaboration.

    Somewhat ironic, sure, but not contradictory to his political opinions at all.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

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