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Thread: Does e-reading axe the printed genre?

  1. #16
    Caddy smells like trees caddy_caddy's Avatar
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    Not at all, nothing could be compared to a printed book. A book is not sth abstract. I like the smell of paper, to touch it, to embrace it . When I was a young I used to treat any book as a lover. IT'S MINE. No one is allowed to touch it cz I feel jealous.
    If my sister wanted to read one of my books , I sit and read it to her aloud , but never allowed her to touch it .

  2. #17
    Registered User ralfyman's Avatar
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    There are various articles that discuss the differences in environmental impact of e-readers and books. For example:

    http://theconversation.edu.au/weighi...-of-books-8331

    http://www.zdnet.com/are-e-readers-o...nt-7000001689/

    http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...er-than-books/

    Thus, e-readers have higher impacts on the environment given production, but this is offset by the fact that they can store lots of books.

    There is one catch that hasn't been mentioned, though, and it's the point that e-readers don't last very long. After a few years, they malfunction or stop working and need to be replaced. Books last much longer.

    Another is that they require various resources that might not be readily available in the long run, including rare-earth elements.

    Third, they require much more infrastructure to be maintained, from computers and storage devices (and even networks) needed to back up or access information to electricity. (This is critical if the e-reader stops working or is lost and data must be recovered from back up sources.) Books, on the other hand, have been made for centuries, before the use of electricity, and do not require a lot of infrastructure.

    Given the threat of a resource crunch (warnings from the IEA, Morgan Stanley, Lloyd's of London, the U.S. and German military forces, etc., of peak oil), environmental damage, and continuous economic problems due to increasing debt, rising food and oil prices, and unemployment, books will become more important. And with a lack of paper, only the works that are considered more important will be preserved.

    With that, e-readers will be helpful only as backups or for convenience (e.g., something to read while one travels, something used to read works that are not that relevant, used to search for phrases in text quickly), but even then smaller computer notebooks will be much more helpful as they contain additional features, such as word processing, spread sheets, etc. They will not be able to replace books.

  3. #18
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    I doubt if paper will be in short supply in the foreseeable future.

  4. #19
    Haribol Acharya blazeofglory's Avatar
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    From the ecological point of view it is better to read ebooks. Today technology is advancing in fact galloping and Kindle is a better choice and i do equally enjoy reading ebooks. It is not an inconvenient read at all. People do not welcome change and it takes a lot of time for acclimatization. There are endless possibilities through ebooks and of course we can have an access to big libraries and it is only through virtual libraries we can gratify some of our deep passions

    “Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””

    “If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.

  5. #20
    TobeFrank Paulclem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
    There are various articles that discuss the differences in environmental impact of e-readers and books. For example:

    http://theconversation.edu.au/weighi...-of-books-8331

    http://www.zdnet.com/are-e-readers-o...nt-7000001689/

    http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...er-than-books/

    Thus, e-readers have higher impacts on the environment given production, but this is offset by the fact that they can store lots of books.

    There is one catch that hasn't been mentioned, though, and it's the point that e-readers don't last very long. After a few years, they malfunction or stop working and need to be replaced. Books last much longer.

    Another is that they require various resources that might not be readily available in the long run, including rare-earth elements.

    Third, they require much more infrastructure to be maintained, from computers and storage devices (and even networks) needed to back up or access information to electricity. (This is critical if the e-reader stops working or is lost and data must be recovered from back up sources.) Books, on the other hand, have been made for centuries, before the use of electricity, and do not require a lot of infrastructure.

    Given the threat of a resource crunch (warnings from the IEA, Morgan Stanley, Lloyd's of London, the U.S. and German military forces, etc., of peak oil), environmental damage, and continuous economic problems due to increasing debt, rising food and oil prices, and unemployment, books will become more important. And with a lack of paper, only the works that are considered more important will be preserved.

    With that, e-readers will be helpful only as backups or for convenience (e.g., something to read while one travels, something used to read works that are not that relevant, used to search for phrases in text quickly), but even then smaller computer notebooks will be much more helpful as they contain additional features, such as word processing, spread sheets, etc. They will not be able to replace books.
    I read the articles and they didn't seem to come down on either side, and one stressed the significant positive ecological difference that an e-reader can have, the more books you use on it.

    I don't know how you can say that e-readers don't last long yet. How do you know? There's been no significant news about that despite loads being sold.

    It's true that e-readers require infrastructure for a protracted time, but can't you envision having solar energy to charge up the e-reader, which lasts a good time, when you have previously loaded however many books you want on it?

    It is true that books would last longer, but they last longer taking up space on your bookshelves. I've long since given up trying to have a library - my house is far too small. the e-reader is perfect, and it is for this reason that my wife bought it for me.

    I think a more significant question is will the e-reader form last? I have an android phone, and it is perfectly cofortable for reading books. In fact I am reading Vanity Fair on mine when there is no alternative. The new Kindle Fire is a kind of tablet, and the tablet market is probably the one which will make or break dedicated e-readers. It is going to be interesting to see what happens with them.

    As for financial apocalypse - well the e-reader debate will be that last on my list of concerns, and things i want to change, if it goes belly up.

  6. #21
    Registered User Joreads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulclem View Post

    I really like my Kindle - it's just fantastic. I still read books though. Also, one effect has been for the booksellers to counter with really nicely designed book covers with thick paper on the inside in the old style. There'll be overlapping for a good while I think.
    One more benefit with a Kindle is that the size of the book does not matter all you have to worry about is holding your Kindle. Ken Follett is a great example of this. For some people (me included) that fact alone makes the Kindle gold.
    I am back............................

  7. #22
    Registered User ralfyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulclem View Post
    I read the articles and they didn't seem to come down on either side, and one stressed the significant positive ecological difference that an e-reader can have, the more books you use on it.
    They do. You have to read them carefully.


    I don't know how you can say that e-readers don't last long yet. How do you know? There's been no significant news about that despite loads being sold.
    E-readers are like cell phones and other computer hand-held devices. They don't last very long, with screens, data storage components, IC chips, etc., failing only after a few years. The same goes for computers.


    It's true that e-readers require infrastructure for a protracted time, but can't you envision having solar energy to charge up the e-reader, which lasts a good time, when you have previously loaded however many books you want on it?
    You're missing the infrastructure needed to manufacture e-readers. Significant quantities of oil are needed for energy to obtain and process other resources plus petrochemicals. These devices are not supposed to last very long due to the idea of "planned obsolescence." They become obsolete or no longer work after a limited period of time (usually, a few years) after which they are thrown away (although some parts may still be recycled) and new units mass-produced.


    It is true that books would last longer, but they last longer taking up space on your bookshelves. I've long since given up trying to have a library - my house is far too small. the e-reader is perfect, and it is for this reason that my wife bought it for me.
    Definitely much longer, and they do take up space. But given issues such as resource shortages, I think the more complex products will not be available much earlier than those that require lower levels of technology.


    I think a more significant question is will the e-reader form last? I have an android phone, and it is perfectly cofortable for reading books. In fact I am reading Vanity Fair on mine when there is no alternative. The new Kindle Fire is a kind of tablet, and the tablet market is probably the one which will make or break dedicated e-readers. It is going to be interesting to see what happens with them.
    None of these devices will last given peak oil and generally a resource shortage. That is why I see them only as alternatives.


    As for financial apocalypse - well the e-reader debate will be that last on my list of concerns, and things i want to change, if it goes belly up.
    Definitely, but books were around even before the industrial age.

  8. #23
    TobeFrank Paulclem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
    They do. You have to read them carefully.



    E-readers are like cell phones and other computer hand-held devices. They don't last very long, with screens, data storage components, IC chips, etc., failing only after a few years. The same goes for computers.



    You're missing the infrastructure needed to manufacture e-readers. Significant quantities of oil are needed for energy to obtain and process other resources plus petrochemicals. These devices are not supposed to last very long due to the idea of "planned obsolescence." They become obsolete or no longer work after a limited period of time (usually, a few years) after which they are thrown away (although some parts may still be recycled) and new units mass-produced.



    Definitely much longer, and they do take up space. But given issues such as resource shortages, I think the more complex products will not be available much earlier than those that require lower levels of technology.



    None of these devices will last given peak oil and generally a resource shortage. That is why I see them only as alternatives.



    Definitely, but books were around even before the industrial age.
    First article

    Trying to environmentally promote or denigrate – depending on your point of view – one form of reading over another is inevitably controversial, and perhaps futile. It is not just about numbers, such as tonnes of CO₂, raw materials and waste, but also about human behaviour and interpretation of the impacts.

    The future will have both eReaders and paper publications. Rather than comparing one with the other for the “best” environmental credentials, it would be better to aim at improving the environmental performance of each.

    Second article is the first one

    Third Article

    “The new study finds that e-readers could have a major impact on improving the sustainability and environmental impact on the publishing industry, one of the world’s most polluting sectors,” a statement at Cleantech’s Web site states. “In 2008, the U.S. book and newspaper industries combined resulted in the harvesting of 125 million trees, not to mention wastewater that was produced or its massive carbon footprint.”

    The report asserts that printed books have the highest per-unit carbon footprint — which includes its raw materials, paper production, printing, shipping, and disposal — in the publishing sector. “In the case of a book bought at a bookstore,” Ms. Ritch said, Cleantech’s measurement “takes into account the fossil fuels necessary to deliver to the bookstore and the fact that 25-36 percent of those books are then returned to the publisher, burning more fossil fuels.”

    After that, Ms. Ritch said, there are three common next steps: “The publisher then incinerates, throws away or recycles them,” she said.


    Right now, e-books are having effectively no positive impact on the environment,” she said, nor will they “unless publishers print fewer books in anticipation of e-book sales.”

    The Cleantech study concluded that purchasing three e-books per month for four years produces roughly 168 kilograms of CO2 throughout the Kindle’s lifecycle, compared to the estimated 1,074 kilograms of CO2 produced by the same number of printed books.

    Of course, none of this means that e-readers are without environmental impact. Consumer electronics, after all, are notorious for containing a variety of toxic materials among their circuitry. Valerie Motis, a Sony spokeswoman, said in an e-mail message that the company’s e-reader products are free of toxic materials, including polyvinyl chloride, or PVC — a particular bugaboo among environmental groups.

    I took your advice and re-read the articles, and you were right. One of them seems to come down on the side of the e-reader, though there are question marks about negative content inKindles. (Last quote) The other - article one - advocates better environmental practice from e-reader producers and book producers.

    Your second article is the first one.

    The third article ends with a question about the e-readers environmental impact, but clearly indicates how they compare in terms of emissions:

    purchasing three e-books per month for four years produces roughly 168 kilograms of CO2 throughout the Kindle’s lifecycle, compared to the estimated 1,074 kilograms of CO2 produced by the same number of printed books

    As for how long they last, we haven't seen how long they last yet and saying they are like phones is unsatisfactory. Phons are used on a minute by minute basis, whereas e-readers are less likely to have such heavy use. Anyway, we've still got spare phones from 7 or 8 years ago.

    These devices are not supposed to last very long due to the idea of "planned obsolescence." They become obsolete or no longer work after a limited period of time (usually, a few years) after which they are thrown away (although some parts may still be recycled) and new units mass-produced.

    I'm glad you explained obsolescence to me. See above.

    Anyway. there is an infrastructure needed to manufacture and transport books. Have a look at article two quoted above about the CO2 emissions.( I read it carefully as you suggested)

    books were around even before the industrial age

    And no doubt they will persist into the information age, but so will e-readers, or what they evolve into.

  9. #24
    Registered User ralfyman's Avatar
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    My understanding is that the components for e-readers are similar to those of other hand-held computers, including tablets, smart phones, etc. In which case, the batteries, screen, integrated chips, etc., are not supposed to last very long. I am also not sure if we can assume that they will not involve heavy use if more books and even other reading materials are stored in them.

    This is the reason why I see books as my primary storage and an e-reader a supplement.

  10. #25
    Clinging to Douvres rocks Gilliatt Gurgle's Avatar
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    My e-reader (Nook) will NOT axe Keats !
    I commented on Neely's Keats thread that I plan to introduce myself to the young bard, so I decided to hold off until Christmas and put Keats on Santas list.
    However, Santa must know that I firmly believe Keats is to be on paper and hardbound.
    Prendrelemick sold me on Plutarch's Lives a while back, they reside in my Nook. (Just scratched the surface by the way -reading, not the Nook)
    I tend to mix it up; paper and e-reader.
    As for the future, I believe the printed book will endure at least for those books one feels must be read on paper (Keats), presentation "coffee table" books as an example.
    "Mongo only pawn in game of life" - Mongo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRma7PDW10

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