Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: A different Point of View

  1. #1
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    In one of the branches of the multiverse, but I don't know which one.
    Posts
    7,019
    Blog Entries
    445

    A different Point of View

    I was thinking about interesting books that haven't been written, and the idea of Lolita written from the point of view of Dolores Haze could be great. Does anyone else think so?

  2. #2
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    6,499
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    I was thinking about interesting books that haven't been written, and the idea of Lolita written from the point of view of Dolores Haze could be great. Does anyone else think so?
    It would be interesting but hardly an adult reference to the events portrayed in the book.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

  3. #3
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    In one of the branches of the multiverse, but I don't know which one.
    Posts
    7,019
    Blog Entries
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Miller View Post
    It would be interesting but hardly an adult reference to the events portrayed in the book.
    Au contraire, actually it would be very much "an adult reference to the events portrayed in the book", because I would have her tell the story in retrospect, as a memoir written now. She would be in her 70's, and her perspective would be interesting at this distance.

  4. #4
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    6,499
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    Au contraire, actually it would be very much "an adult reference to the events portrayed in the book", because I would have her tell the story in retrospect, as a memoir written now. She would be in her 70's, and her perspective would be interesting at this distance.
    This would be difficult when one considers that Lolita died in childbirth at the age of 17.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

  5. #5
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    In one of the branches of the multiverse, but I don't know which one.
    Posts
    7,019
    Blog Entries
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Miller View Post
    This would be difficult when one considers that Lolita died in childbirth at the age of 17.
    That is very easy to get around, very easy. Lolita died, because she definitely stopped being a Lolita, a child; she became a woman. As far as Humbert was concerned, she was dead.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    3,890
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    That is very easy to get around, very easy. Lolita died, because she definitely stopped being a Lolita, a child; she became a woman. As far as Humbert was concerned, she was dead.
    In the comical contexts you fellows are discussing, you can get around anything whatsoever. "Ay Lola, Lolita, Lola. Contigo quiero acabar."

  7. #7
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    13,478
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    That is very easy to get around, very easy. Lolita died, because she definitely stopped being a Lolita, a child; she became a woman. As far as Humbert was concerned, she was dead.
    Interesting so you are saying is that Lolita would in fact be aware of her childhood until she met Humbert and then she lost it all.
    I am guessing that would be a hard one to score because when does a child draw the line between an adult and a child?
    How do they know they are no longer a child?
    I think for me I would have had it the other wat Humber realising what a pervert he had became and decided he was not worth living thus liberating Lolita.
    Justice would have served its cause.
    Last edited by cacian; 10-01-2012 at 03:11 PM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  8. #8
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    In one of the branches of the multiverse, but I don't know which one.
    Posts
    7,019
    Blog Entries
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    Interesting so you are saying is that Lolita would in fact be aware of her childhood until she met Humbert and then she lost it all.
    No, Humbert was interested in children, and he was not interested in adult women. Whether he was conscious of that is not completely clear, but that is how he acted.

    Most children are aware that they are children, rather than being adults; the differences are all around them.

    I am guessing that would be a hard one to score because when does a child draw the line between an adult and a child?
    How do they know they are no longer a child?
    The line comes at different places for different people. Humbert drew the line at childbirth. I think that Dolores drew it somewhat earlier.

    I think for me I would have had it the other wat Humber realising what a pervert he had became and decided he was not worth living thus liberating Lolita.
    I think that Humbert realized that he was a pervert from quite early on, but he didn't really face it.

    Justice would have served its cause.
    What would be justice in this case?

    The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of her memoirs. I don't know if I could write it, but it might be worth a try.

  9. #9
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    13,478
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    No, Humbert was interested in children, and he was not interested in adult women. Whether he was conscious of that is not completely clear, but that is how he acted.
    I am not sure whether the word 'interested' does him justice.
    He was more into children you mean for a different reason of that of a normal adult person.
    He must have been aware of something he certainly knew the difference between and child and adult person. That is awarness enough.
    Most children are aware that they are children, rather than being adults; the differences are all around them.
    I somehow do not agree. I am a teacher and have children of my own and I know that children are not aware of any difference between an adult and a child. They could not because they are not adults yet to know the difference.
    In order to know the difference between the two you have to have been both obviously.

    The line comes at different places for different people. Humbert drew the line at childbirth. I think that Dolores drew it somewhat earlier.
    Humbert did not drew the line. He did not understand where he was at and so decided that childbirth would become the line he would draw.
    His real issues are not with drawing the line but with a child having another child. This kind brought him back closer to the truth. I am guessing his issue is with someone havign a child kind of disturbing to him because it might have reminded him of his parents childhood something not quite right somwhere along these lines.
    Dolores would not have drawn the line because she would have understood the risk of unprotected sex and would acted appropriately in order not to fall pregnatn. That is what an adult have protection and not get pregnant.

    I think that Humbert realized that he was a pervert from quite early on, but he didn't really face it.



    What would be justice in this case?

    The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of her memoirs. I don't know if I could write it, but it might be worth a try.
    Justice would be that Dolores would walk away before getting pregnant because she had found someone else a friend form her childhood the same age as her with whom she gets on well with and with whom she would confide.
    Last edited by cacian; 10-01-2012 at 03:53 PM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  10. #10
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    In one of the branches of the multiverse, but I don't know which one.
    Posts
    7,019
    Blog Entries
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    I am not sure whether the word 'interested' does him justice.
    He was more into children you mean for a different reason of that of a normal adult person.
    He must have been aware of something he certainly knew the difference between and child and adult person. That is awarness enough.
    I don't think that there is any doubt that he ralized the difference. The Quilty pieces are all about him feeling guilty.

    I somehow do not agree. I am a teacher and have children of my own and I know that children are not aware of any difference between an adult and a child. They could not because they are not adults yet to know the difference.
    In order to know the difference between the two you have to have been both obviously.
    It has been a few years, but I clearly remember knowing that I was not an adult, and there was a time when I know longer felt that way; although the end point was not something that I recognised at the exact time. I was not an adultwhen I was eight, but I knew very well that I was not an adult.

    Humbert did not drew the line. He did not understand where he was at and so decided that childbirth would become the line he would draw.
    His real issues are not with drawing the line but with a child having another child. This kind brought him back closer to the truth. I am guessing his issue is with someone havign a child kind of disturbing to him because it might have reminded him of his parents childhood something not quite right somwhere along these lines.
    I disagree with your interretation on this. I think that Humbert knew the difference, but he didn't draw a specific line. The line became clear to him when he saw her after she had taken off with the guy who got her pregnant.

    Dolores would not have drawn the line because she would have understood the risk of unprotected sex and would acted appropriately in order not to fall pregnatn. That is what an adult have protection and not get pregnant.
    I think that Dolores knew the difference.

    Justice would be that Dolores would walk away before getting pregnant because she had found someone else a friend form her childhood the same age as her with whom she gets on well with and with whom she would confide.
    ANd that was the giuy who got her pregnant.

    The more i think about this, the more I think it would be a good sequel.

  11. #11
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    6,499
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    As far as Humbert was concerned, she was dead.
    Then why did Humbert pursue her and beg her to go away with him even though she was married and pregnant ?
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

  12. #12
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    In one of the branches of the multiverse, but I don't know which one.
    Posts
    7,019
    Blog Entries
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Miller View Post
    Then why did Humbert pursue her and beg her to go away with him even though she was married and pregnant ?
    He pursued her before she gave birth, not after.

  13. #13
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    6,499
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    He pursued her before she gave birth, not after.
    Well considering she was dead and he was in prison, it's hardly surprising.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

  14. #14
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    In one of the branches of the multiverse, but I don't know which one.
    Posts
    7,019
    Blog Entries
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Miller View Post
    Well considering she was dead and he was in prison, it's hardly surprising.
    I suppose that you also believe that, as Xladimir wrote in the aAfterword, that there was no symbolism.

  15. #15
    Registered User mona amon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    India
    Posts
    1,502
    PeterL I think it's an excellent idea if you're able to pull it off. But I think you ought to allow her her death at 17 because it's such an important part of her tragedy. Indeed it's what makes it a tragedy, both in the Shakespearean sense of all the main characters dying in the end, as well as the fact that she never had a chance to get her life back after what Humbert did to her.

    You can get around it by using her ghost or something - dunno - I've just started reading Tristram Shandy and here he is describing his own conception, at least that's what I think he's doing. I'm sure there are ways to get around the problem.
    Exit, pursued by a bear.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Novels that incorporate an interesting narrtive point of view
    By Babak Movahed in forum General Literature
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-24-2010, 05:09 AM
  2. There is no God’s Eye View of Reality
    By coberst in forum Philosophical Literature
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 02-19-2009, 04:36 AM
  3. Question about point of view
    By cati... in forum General Literature
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-12-2007, 03:09 PM
  4. I need help on a point of view on a book!!
    By LaurBooT15 in forum General Literature
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-20-2004, 09:04 PM
  5. Replies: 36
    Last Post: 11-07-2004, 10:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •