Beggars

[Sancho]

Yea, one of the litter (Freudian slip) ones snatched my girlfriends bracklet off her arm, and when i chased him (which was the point of the distraction) the bigger one tried to take her purse. It was a helluva calamity. The other Roma stood around and watched. I think they enjoyed my rather loud dissertation on their culture.

Well, I’d certainly draw a distinction between a mugger and a beggar, or for that matter a larcenist (or even a gypsy). Additionally, I’ve never been all that squeamish about giving a wino some spare change and knowing that he’ll probably spend it on a bottle of Mad Dog. I think the depths of his addiction has taken away his ability to choose and I doubt rehab is truly an option for him. Therefore, I go back to my original post in this thread – the snap judgment I make when somebody on the street asks me for money: Is this person out here by choice or necessity? Maybe my pocket change will take away (even temporarily) a little pain in that person’s life.

[Annamariah]

I do see more and more "Romanians and Bulgarians" in Helsinki (most or all are gypsies-from my eyes), but opposing my earlier statement these types are professional beggars and thieves who pass it on from generation to generation. I have no time for them.

You're in Helsinki?

Yeah, they are Romanian and Bulgarian gypsies who come here, and there is some organized crime involved.

[tonywalt]

You're in Helsinki?

Yeah, they are Romanian and Bulgarian gypsies who come here, and there is some organized crime involved.

I go there on business. There was a whole pack of them on Mannerheimintie and Aleksanterinkatu.

[Paulclem]

I’m an easy mark for kids.

I had to pay this little guy 20 or 30 Rupees before he’d let me pass. (That’s Mrs. Sancho to the left, almost out of the picture, grinning)


Here are a couple of mini-buskers down in Buenos Aires. The second I snapped the photo the little girl was all over me. That snapshot cost me 5 Pesos. (That’s me in the ball cap in the window reflection)


These two little sweethearts were hanging on the side of the cab in heavy traffic in Mumbai. They got about 50 Rupees out of El Sancho (and they almost got his camera too).

When were you in Mumbai Sancho?

I was there in 1990-91, and the whole lack of social care had a big effect on me. I think the origins of this seem to lie in attitudes - perhaps formed by caste. You could see it outside the Taj Mahal hotel, (the one attacked by the terrorists last year), where there would be a family with little kids living on the pavement whilst rich Indians passed them by without a glance as they went into the hotel.

No social care - lack of provision even for children, and you end up with child beggars who are probably being run by gangs in the tourist areas. Disgraceful then and now considering the economic might that India is developing. It makes you wonder how long they can sustain such a discriminatory system.

[Emil Miller]

I was in Munich when I heard of the overthrow and summary execution of Ceausescu and his wife by firing squad. Another scumbag dealt with was my immediately reaction but, given the subsequent sequence of events whereby begging and thievery have become commonplace in various European countries as result of the influx of Romanians, I feel a lot more sympathy for the Romanian dictator than I did at the time.

[Paulclem]

I was in Munich when I heard of the overthrow and summary execution of Ceausescu and his wife by firing squad. Another scumbag dealt with was my immediately reaction but, given the subsequent sequence of events whereby begging and thievery have become commonplace in various European countries as result of the influx of Romanians, I feel a lot more sympathy for the Romanian dictator than I did at the time.

Funnily enough we were on our way to India, via a number of European countries and Turkey, when he fell. We were on a train on our way from Belgrade to Thessaloniki. We were in the end carriage, and we saw three young blokes climb onto the train between. They seemed ok, and one of them spoke good English. he said that they were escaping from Romania after working for Ceaucescu's regime. They just disappeared under the train when we crossed the border and the new guard checked all the tickets. We got off in Thessaloniki with them, and met them a couple of times. Later, one of them wrote to us saying they had found work on fishing boats. We were pleased for them.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I do see more and more "Romanians and Bulgarians" in Helsinki (most or all are gypsies-from my eyes), but opposing my earlier statement these types are professional beggars and thieves who pass it on from generation to generation. I have no time for them.

They are also present in London where some years ago, they managed to lift £1000 from one of my accounts. The bank immediately repaid the difference but as far as I'm concerned they should be hunted down and disposed of.

Bloomin heck. There are a few Slovak gypsies (?) in Sheffield at the moment and without being prejudiced, and by all accounts, all they want to do is just steal everything in sight, no matter what it is. This is true in the schools, supermarkets etc and believe it or not there were two little kids on the tennis courts the other day trying to steal one of my balls! "Is that my ball? Yes it is give it me back. Shoo" was the response, but they generally are becoming a bit of a pain. I hope we don't get any more of them. I'm sure it is just the vast majority ruining it for the minority though as they can't all be that bad???


As for giving in general - not often to beggars but sometimes, probably rarely if truth be told. 50/50 for buskers if they are good and I'm not in a hurry, just loose change - I don't consider buskers beggars at all. Big Issue sellers, not any more because they are always shouting and it gets on my nerves. I would be more willing to buy one if they shut up for a minute. Besides, it has been said that there are very few if any genuine homeless people here but I don't know if that is true or not.

I had to pay this little guy 20 or 30 Rupees before he’d let me pass. (That’s Mrs. Sancho to the left, almost out of the picture, grinning)

See I would find that really annoying. I don't know how much 20/30 Rupees is, but if someone blocked my way I would not be happy.

[Buh4Bee]

Sorry to break the flow, I'm just going to answer the questions in the OP.

Where I live now there are almost no homeless or beggars, because I live in such an isolated area. In the bigger surrounding cities, you may see a few, but they are not aggressive. They usually just sit there on the side of the sidewalk with a cardboard sign. In most cases I just walk by, but if I have food I will give it to them. I have bought homeless people food in the past, because I may talk to them and ask them if they are hungry. Some homeless just want money, so I tell them I don't have cash only a debit card. I learned all this from my sister-in-law, who is a minister in the States. She always says, don't give money, instead give food or water.

[Buh4Bee]

Furthermore, I am very family-centric. I want above all to HAVE A FAMILY and take care of the family members I presently have. That might seem easier with an actor's salary, but the constant harassment celebrities receive can drive a person quite literally mad.

I am already respected in my circle as a poet. I think the poet lifestyle is better and easier on the family.

[Brielle92]

I live in Beirut and there are TONS of beggars in some areas. If they're kids, I buy them a sandwich, so they don't give the money to their parents.

My friend educates children who can't afford school and there's this one beggar girl who I know she teaches. The girl is always at my favourite coffee shop. Once I saw her there and she sat down with me and asked to call my friend so I let her call her and bought her a milkshake. The staff said "you actually let her use your phone? It was so sad...

[Brielle92]

Also there's a song by Arctic Monkeys called Plastic Tramp, about a fake beggar. The lyrics are pretty good but harsh. Unfortunately it's the truth though...

[Sancho]

When were you in Mumbai Sancho?

I was there in 1990-91, and the whole lack of social care had a big effect on me. I think the origins of this seem to lie in attitudes - perhaps formed by caste. You could see it outside the Taj Mahal hotel, (the one attacked by the terrorists last year), where there would be a family with little kids living on the pavement whilst rich Indians passed them by without a glance as they went into the hotel.

No social care - lack of provision even for children, and you end up with child beggars who are probably being run by gangs in the tourist areas. Disgraceful then and now considering the economic might that India is developing. It makes you wonder how long they can sustain such a discriminatory system.

That trip was Dec/Jan, '07/'08.

I'd been there several times with my job and my señora wanted to go. Oddly enough, we both found ourselves with time off during the holidays, so we did a last-minute, shoot-from-the-hip visit to India.

In Mumbai, she and I stayed at a Sheraton in a pleasant neighborhood in town. It was a low-key area, the people were friendly, the food was good and inexpensive, and there was a gorgeous Hindu Temple near by.

One day we went down to the Taj (that's were I'd stayed earlier with my job) and over to the Oberoi to do the tourist thing. I agree with you - the begging down there is industrial-strength, and we suspected the kids were working for the man.

So anyway, we were standing out there by that big Gateway edifice and a little girl comes up to La Señora Sancho. Hollywood couldn't have come up with a better beggar. She was about belly-button high, skinny, darkly complected, barefooted, had rats-nest hair, and was wearing a dirty yellow dress. She didn't want me to take her picture, so I didn't. This is where it's important to know that my wife comes from a long line of cops and has a cynical streak a mile long. Here's the conversation between the two of them as best as I can recall:

Girl (with hands out, palms up): Money for milk, madam?
La Señora Sancho (with hands on hips and slightly bent at the waist): Where's your mother!?
G: Mother sick. Mother with baby, madam.
LSS: Where's your father?
G: Father dead. Please, madam, money for milk. Milk for baby.
LSS: Why aren't you in school?
G: No money for school, madam.
LSS: Do you have any brothers or sisters?
G: No, madam. Only me. And mother. And baby. Please, madam, money for milk.

Well this back-and-forth went on for a while and, impressively, the little girl had an answer for everything. She was quick. And so, Mrs Sancho finally fished around in her purse and gave the girl several coins. And then we wandered along the embankment for a while. Twenty minutes later we're back at the gateway and we spotted the girl standing by an ice cream stand, eating a kolfi on a stick. Mrs Sancho marched right over there and demanded and explanation:

LSS (one hand on hip, one hand pointing at girl): You said you needed money for milk!
G (one hand out, one hand firmly gripping kolfi treat): Money for milk, madam?

But she knew the gig was up.

Later that same day we were over by the Victoria Train Station, which was were I snapped the photo of the little guy. I'm certain he was not working for the man. He was self employed - half-pint entrepreneur. And he had brass. We'd've brought him home with us if we could've gotten away with it. A kid with tenacity like that would be on the fast track to a fortune 500 corporate board room in the States.

Speaking of tenacity, I agree with you Paul, the caste system has a tenacious hold on the mindset over there. I won't defend it. But I will say this: while it's tragic that there's little opportunity for upward mobility there, there's also a weird sort of piece of mind. (Weird to western minds anyway) The poor people there don't have the angst of poor people in the west, who see wealth all around them and know they have somehow failed to achieve it. For many Indians, a caste is a state of being, and hence, I don't think the upper castes look down upon the lower castes in the same way the western upper classes look down on the lower classes. In the USA anyway we see poor people as failures. There must be something wrong with them. Probably they're too lazy or stupid to make a decent living. Whereas in India, those people are poor because that's just the way it is.

Here's another thing that shocked me about India: they don't pickpocket over there. The first few times I went there, I was in my anti-pickpocket mode - walking everywhere fast, pretending I knew where I was going, with my wallet in my front pocket, and my hand on my wallet, just like I do in Paris or Madrid. Finally some British dude in a bar told me, "You know, mate, they don't pickpocket here." I said, "No kidding."

Who'd'a thunk it?

[Emil Miller]

The problem of beggars has existed since time immemorial but its present increase is, in my view, connected to globalisation. The enormous disparity in wealth between those who have used the new technology to massively increase their wealth and the rest was bound to result in a situation where the world's conurbations are increasingly blighted by those at the bottom of the scale who resort to begging. Of course, there are some beneficiaries of globalisation, such as Bill Gates, who have philanthropically donated large sums to worthy causes but it's small scale compared to the huge wealth that is increasingly being concentrated in fewer hands than perhaps at any time in history.

[cacian]

I thought chugger when I saw beggar.
They are kind of same but different at the same time.

[TurquoiseSunset]

In South Africa we have A LOT of homeless people and beggars (poor people in general for that matter). They are everywhere. Actually I'm sitting here giggling to myself at all the 'shocked' posts...you should see my neighbourhood on trash day. It shouldn't be so funny, but the contrast in our experiences...I can't help but laugh.

I encounter the most beggars at home* actually. They knock on the door asking for food, clothes, money or work (once off jobs, not permanent employment).
Food – my mom freezes left overs in empty 2 litre ice cream tubs, so when they’re full and someone asks for food, she’ll put the frozen block in a plastic bag for the beggars to take home and heat up. But then you get people who get cocky…one guy asked for frozen raw chicken pieces because he had people coming over for the weekend. Some people have asked for canned food, as in, that’s all they are willing to take. Lulz…so beggars can be choosers, people, but they really shouldn’t be. My parents’ house got a lot of traffic at one point and one day my mom was threatened by this one guy when she said she didn’t have anything to give. He was beating on the door until my mom called the police and they put him in the back of the van (because he sassed the officers). We had people begging at the door four times a day, so I told my mom that she has to pick her three or four favourites (I know) and only give to them (we only have so much food to give anyway), otherwise it’s just too dangerous and she’s home alone during the day. We also give them old clothes when they come round and we’ve cleaned out the closets or what have you.

Clothes – like I said, usually we give our old clothes to the food regulars, but sometimes we have people asking for clothes specifically, so we’ll give if we have. And then of course you get ones who ask for specific type of shoes or clothing items: “I want work boots…size 8”. Oh yes, of course sir, kindly wait here while I go see if we have something in your size. Seriously, some people think there is an endless supply of food and clothes. I know why they think that, but it’s still annoying sometimes. I don’t expect someone to grovel or anything, but not even my family walks into my house demanding I hand over certain items.

Work – some people ask to wash the car or do some gardening. We don’t take people because we have garden services etc.
Money – we usually don’t give money, but every now and then we give to people who ask for shelter admittance or paraffin, or something like that. This post is going to get out of hand though if I tell all my ‘money’ stories too: you get the scammers and crazies who come round to tell you the exact same looooooong sob story about whatever, every time. They NEVER get money. I’ve also heard a lot of stories where people decline giving money but offer to make food and then as the beggars are walking away, while the home owners are looking through the window, they can see the beggars throwing the food away.

As for other kinds of beggars…
I never give anyone a lift. EVER. It’s just plain dangerous. You stop for a woman and her baby and next thing you know people are jumping out of bushes jacking your car. True story, and many more where that came from.

If there’s a beggar in front of a super market or a fast food place I’ll buy something from them to eat. They always take the food when they’re there.
I hardly ever see buskers, when I do I don’t mind giving.

As for people who are, very obviously, drinkers. Most of the time I give them money too (when I don’t have food with me or there’s no shop nearby). Once the money leaves my hand it’s theirs to do with it as they please. Wine and beer have calories too… And what if they actually did want to buy food? I live in a town outside of Cape Town, and even though I see homeless kids here too, in the city there’s obviously a lot more, but I see many of them walking around with empty chips packets inhaling glue fumes. I give them money sometimes, sometimes I don’t, but then what if they really want something to eat? And then some of the kids are ordered by their parents to give them the money, so the parents can buy glue or alcohol or whatever. Beggars who look like meth addicts only ever get food from me though.

Then you get the traffic light beggars. Again, usually I’ll give. Some people don’t give to beggars who look too well-dressed, but what happens if I lose my job and have to go begging on the streets? My clothes will be clean (in the beginning), I have all my teeth and my hair is professionally dyed and cut… :/

I always try to have coins and ten rand notes with me, because we have ‘car guards’ here, so I usually have something to give and then I also keep some coins in the car’s ashtray. I know some people think I’m a sucker and I give too freely (when it’s comes to tips and car guards too), but I have so much. I’m not rich or anything, but compared to some of these people I might as well be the bloody Queen of England. And really, if I give away a few Rand a day it’s not going to bankrupt me. I might have to eat out less or something, poor poor me. I’ll probably eat out anyway and just put it on my credit card and pay it off next month. Such a hard life I have.

Many years ago, when I was a first year in university, or there abouts, I went into a shop…I got three fashion magazines, sweets, and ice-cream for me and my brother. It cost me a lot of money. But there I was standing in the queue to pay, with a couple, who were obviously poor, standing in front of me unpacking their basket: small packet of coffee, small packet of flour, some rice, 1 litre of milk, you get the picture. I felt awful. I was spending twice the amount they were and I was buying crap, essentially, with pocket money!

I used to work at a co-op/hardware store for extra pocket money while I was studying. People would come in, sweat dripping off them, because they had to walk kilometres on a hot summer’s day (sometimes really old people) to get their gas canisters filled. Then when they have to pay and I say, “R39.50 please” and I can see their faces fall, because they only brought R37 because they didn’t know the price of the gas went up. Some of them looked like I had just informed them of a death in the family. I always paid the extra. How can I send them home when I got paid R120 for half of Saturday, for pressing a few buttons?

I drive by people going through trash cans every day. In fact, when I sit in my lounge and I look out my sliding doors, past my teeny gravel garden onto the park behind my place, I will see a few homeless or poor people walk by during the day and go through the trash can that’s there. It’s winter here now. Most mornings I see homeless people walking around with soaked through clothes and blankets, or sitting in parks with their clothes laid out on the grass in the cold morning sun hoping for them to dry. When I lie in my bed at night and the rain is coming down hard and I imagine them having to curl up in a doorway on the street somewhere... When it’s snowing and I get dressed in front of my fan heater…

When I see things like that all the time (or think about it) how can I not give when I have something to give?

Well beggers too can strive for a balanced diet. Simply solved my standing outside different kinds of restaurants, bars, and bistros.

I normally opt to stand outside the Ritz Carlton beach bar - they make a killer dirty martini and excellent lumpfish caviar on Waters Biscuits.

Good idea for that end-of-the-month cash shortage.



*I say home, but I mean my parents’ house, not really mine. I live in a closed complex.

PS: Sorry for the big post.