The situation is very different in Europe. There are fewer beggars here, but they are not in the same situation as the ones you describe. They are most often, but not exclusively, men, and many clearly have drug and alcohol problems, and/or mental health problems too. There are agencies to help them which it sounds as though there aren't in your country - ours will be entitled to benefits of some kind.
Yip, I got that from the other posts, but that's also why I decided to make such a long post about what it's like in my country. It's so different.Originally Posted by Paulclem
Honestly, I don't know if there are any agencies like that in South Africa, but if there are, my not knowing of them just shows that it's not a prevalent thing.
It's a sad situation, the amount of poor people we have. That's why I feel South Africans who have are obligated to give or do what they can. We might have a lot of people living below the bread line, but we also have a decent amount of people who are financially able to help, if only a little.
It would also help if our government managed itself and the country's financial matters better, but I'd rather not go into politics
Yes - we're lucky with the welfare state.Yip, I got that from the other posts, but that's also why I decided to make such a long post about what it's like in my country. It's so different.
Honestly, I don't know if there are any agencies like that in South Africa, but if there are, my not knowing of them just shows that it's not a prevalent thing.
It's a sad situation, the amount of poor people we have. That's why I feel South Africans who have are obligated to give or do what they can. We might have a lot of people living below the bread line, but we also have a decent amount of people who are financially able to help, if only a little.
It would also help if our government managed itself and the country's financial matters better, but I'd rather not go into politics
I was thinking this morning, as I walked through town, about this discussion. I wondered can you disassociate your giving to beggars from the consequences of their misuse of the money? I don't mean it as a criticism, but wondered whether the act of giving is tainted if it is used for drugs or alcohol. Also, is ignorence a defence? I think the use if money may be something we don't as citizens think about enough. For exanple if giving is tainted, even in ignorence about its use, what about the use of money with unethical companies such as Nestle who exploit child labour?
This makes me wonder if charity is charitable when it is conditional. Do the conditions attached make it less worthy or more effective?
I am tired of the beggers. In the past few months, I've been approached more times than I have in the past few years. It's getting worse. The first couple of times, it didn't really bother me, but the woman who approached me with a piece of paper in her hand and asked if I was local before she asked me for money really pissed me off.
She had a backpack on, and was carrying a piece of paper and she held it up when she asked, "Are you from around here?"
My first thought was that she was lost and was looking for a specific place, and that the piece of paper she had in hand was a set of directions or something that she needed help with. So I was prepared to tell her whether or not I knew how to get where she was trying to go. But then she started to speak again, and she told me she had some kind of tumor in her head, and she suffered from seizures, and that she was 2 months pregnant, and then there were a few other ailments that she listed but by then I was ready to keep moving. If she had just stopped after tumor and seizures, I may have reached into my pocket for a wadded up dollar bill that I had. But she went on with her litany of ailments, and I decided she wasn't getting anything from me.
When she sensed that I was losing interest, she showed me the piece of paper which was an email print out listing some medications. Her story was that she went to the hospital where she was given the prescriptions and that she had then gone to Walgreens to get the prescription filled, and that Walgreens declined her card, and would not give her the needed medicine. So she needed me to give her money for her medicine. As she told her tale, I noticed her missing teeth, and the huge stain on the men's undershirt she was wearing and how she seemed so full of ****e. I told her I wasn't carrying cash and she promptly told me that there was an ATM around the corner, and we could go over together and I could get the $20 she needed. I said, "No I can't." and then she got real huffy, and said "Please???!!!" and I said no, and walked away, and she made some noise at me like I was being unreasonable.
Maybe she really did have all those issues, I don't know, but it didn't seem like it. Other beggers were happy with anything I could spare, but she wanted $20.00. That's a bit much. Why didn't she take that attitude with the hospital personnel who sent her on her way with a prescription she had no means of filling? Do they not advise about charity services? When I went to the dentist, the first thing they asked me before they did a thing was how was I going to pay for the parts that insurance didn't cover. They had a detailed breakdown of the charges for the services that I needed that they hadn't yet provided. So, is our hospital system that lousy that they would send her on her way without making sure that she could procure the needed medicine? I guess it must be. Or she's a liar. Or both A and B are correct.
A few days later I was walking downtown on my lunch break and I was approached by someone from Greenpeace who wanted donations and I would have been happy to do that, but they wanted my credit card number, right there down on the street. I called Greenpeace, and told them that I was approached by someone with a donation request, and she told me that yes, they had representatives canvasing the area, and she told me which city they were from, and it matched what the Greenpeace rep had told me, so it wasn't a hustle. But still, it irritated me just the same.
It's one thing to ask for spare change, or a dollar or something, but when they walk up to you on the street and want your credit card it changes things. I pull out the credit card on MY terms...
There are also homeless people who stand outside of where I work holding newspapers which cost $1. The newspapers are special publications related to homelessness. There is one man who always stations himself on a bench, and he will say "Have a Nice Day" to whoever walks past. I will buy his paper sometimes. There are a lot of homeless people selling newspapers. If it was just one or two people standing around outside, I would probably buy their papers regularly, but there are too many clustered in one area, and now when I see them I am uncomfortable. I'm sure they are not comfortable either though. There are some who just stand there and hold the papers up and I'm not really inclined to buy their papers. If I was homeless, that's probably what I would do. I wouldn't speak and therefore wouldn't sell any papers.
Really?
Seriously, someone post here. If nothing else, just say that yes, beggars are asking a bit much when they ask you to go to the ATM to withdraw money from your account to fund their sob story. Seriously.
Really?
Yes, beggars are asking a bit much when they ask you to go to the ATM to withdraw money from your account to fund their sob story.
'The road goes ever on and on, now from the door where it began... Now far ahead the road has gone, and I must follow, if I can' - That dude who liked elves
Oh yeah, that's way over the top behavior. Giving someone some pocket change and letting somebody follow you to a cash machine are in whole other categories. Warning flags ought to be going up all over the place if you've lost your free will and are starting to feel obligated. But then that's how begging works, isn't it? That's their shtick. Bonafide charities do it too.
Seems to me, beggars are good at bringing you in quickly. They have to. They only have a few seconds to make their case while you're walking by on the street, or sitting at a stoplight, or standing on the sidewalk looking at all the cool stuff in the window. They're also good at picking out their mark: out-of-towners, charity-minded folks, young guys who don't want to look like a schmuck in front of their girl. Anyway, opening lines are almost always designed to draw you out and let them in:
"Hey, where you from?"
Big smile, "Oh, I'm from a little town near Kenosha, Wisconsin. Where're you from, friend?"
- You might as well break out you're checkbook. Better, just cut to the chase:
"Sorry, man, I'm broke." and keep on walking.
"Hey, can I ask you question?"
"Why sure. Ask away. You got questions, I got answers."
-You might as well just give her your pin number. Better:
"You just did. What's your next question?" (now she's playing you're game)
"Hey, can you do me a favor?"
"Of course, Jesus always said..."
-You've probably got yourself a new roommate at this point. Better:
"Well now, that all depends on what it is that you want." (Sets you up to easily say, "Sorry. No can do, Todd."
Anyway, they're good at catching you off guard. Practice makes perfect. Just go out and have some fun - but try not to get yourself knifed.
Say it ain't so, Joe.
Why bother re-iterating what Emerson already articulated perfectly?
"There is a class of persons to whom by all spiritual affinity I am bought and sold; for them I will go to prison, if need be; but your miscellaneous popular charities; the education at college of fools; the building of meeting-houses to the vain end to which many now stand; alms to sots; and the thousandfold Relief Societies; — though I confess with shame I sometimes succumb and give the dollar, it is a wicked dollar which by and by I shall have the manhood to withhold."
J
I have to disagree with Emerson, and say that I am more in agreement with TurquoiseSunset.
I found these statistics:
http://www.endhomelessness.org/pages...f_homelessness
(yes, it is a charitable organization, but don't feel obligated to give)
Homelessness and poverty are on the rise in the United States. I think each individual person will have to decide for themselves if they want to give money to the individual beggar in front of them. I think all of us are savvy enough at this point to know that there is a probability that the person, be it adult or child, who is asking is scamming us to a degree. Could it be said, Sancho, that that child was not in dire need? Even if she's working for the man? What kind of a life is that? I would hardly have begrudged her an ice cream cone for her trouble, even while recognizing that she probably gets a meal from somewhere. That's probably all she gets. What about a home, parents who can keep her off the streets, an education, a future? I think it's unlikely she has those or even the chance of any of them.
That's one thing I cordially dislike about the United States, this attitude toward the poor. That they are poor because they are lazy. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I have worked in an inner city school for many years. The reasons for poverty and the failure of schools to help their students climb out of said poverty are complex and not easily understood, not least by those running these schools and districts. It was painful to watch them do all the wrong things and blame all the wrong people.
Perhaps we could deepen the discussion by questioning the root causes of poverty in these various societies and what could be done to end it or at least lessen its effects.
The thing is, giving a dollar to a beggar says more about the character of the person who is giving it than it does to alleviate the problem of poverty. Even helping out at a soup kitchen doesn't really do anything to solve the problem. Each situation is going to be different and will possibly call for a different response. You are correct, Shalot, to be cautious about giving out your credit card number. I can think of no occasion when I would do that.
So give a dollar, or don't-if you choose to do so, you will have stopped for only the briefest moment any pain or hunger that person is feeling. It will not stop the cold, it will not stop the gnawing desire for a drug or a drink or the pain of a rotting tooth or frostbitten toes.
But if you want to give, it might make both of you feel better about the human condition, if only for a moment.
"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its' own reason for existing." ~ Albert Einstein
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Bonzai "Some people say I done alright for a girl." Melanie Safka
I do think charities and voluntary organizations are underestimated, though. I've personally witnessed the substantial material aid, as well as counselling, that charities give to homeless people in my city who otherwise would have been long dead or, at least, much worse off. Charities nowadays don't simply give temporary handouts but help with overcoming addictions, finding jobs, providing a (relatively) safe place to stay and of course serving meals. Clearly charities aren't the solution to homelessness and poverty, but they are a lot more proactive than the state in providing concrete aid. I recognize many charities receive quite a bit of their funding from municipalities, but this is often scarce and from what I understand most organizations rely on donations. They also run on volunteer service -- administrators, while employees, get extraordinarily meagre salaries -- so "helping out" actually helps.
That said, I agree with your broader point that perceptions of poverty as individual moral failures do nothing to devise and carry out concrete solutions. What I find troubling is not just these perceptions, which are rampant in Canada as well, but the supererogatory attitude taken towards solving these issues. Peter Singer said in a famous essay, which I wholly agree with, that any society serious about tackling poverty cannot approach it as an option -- it requires a collective obligation. So I'll stress, once again, that charities aren't the solution given their private nature, although they are doing observable good.
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