The Death Penalty

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Well, the hypocrisy is equal when it comes to the people who are pro-life and for the death penalty. It is odd that one side isn't pro-life and anti-death penalty and the other pro-choice and pro-death penalty (not that those people don't exist--I'm assuming you're one of them, Bien?--that's just not how the usual polarity plays out).

I think what makes the issues different is that when it comes to abortion, it is one person making a decision that directly effects that person (of course that person's family is involved and so is the father). When someone is sentenced to death, it's a group of 12 people with no connection to the accused deciding the fate of that person on evidence that is too often dubious. Whether this person lives or dies doesn't affect any one person in such an impact fil way as a new child will for a parent.

In essence, what I guess I'm trying to say is that it's kind dumb to say if you're for (or against) one, you should be for (or against) the other. They are two completely different issues with completely different contexts.

[BienvenuJDC]

Yes....very different. One life is innocent, and one life is guilty!

There has been much conjecture about what the mother thinks. If the mother condones (or wants) the death of her offspring, then it is ok? Is that what really gives value to one's life? How can we justify one death and not another. I agree, it seems ironic that pro-life are pro-death penalty as well, but that isn't always the case.

I'd rather see a more consistent society.

[OrphanPip]

Does anyone see the irony in the fact that most people who are against the death penalty are in favor of abortions? If there is a rape that occurs, it is the consensus among some that it is justified to destroy the child, while the rapist is allowed to live. If we are truly concerned with preserving life, why do we kill unborn children?

Consistency

And if anyone wants to make the argument that the unborn children aren't yet humans, then I could also make the argument that criminally insane people are no longer human either.

Unfortunately for you Bien the criminally insane are quite clearly human beings, while a packet of cells is not.

[Paulclem]

True. The criminally insane are ill, so guilt is not in the equation

I think the assumption by pro death penalty supporters that anything less is not a punishment is false. Incarceration itself is a punishment. Day in, day out, week in week out, year in year out in the same place, your life determined by others, no choices except small ones, and every day the consequences of your actions all about you. I don't call that anything but a punishment. The fact that they are also living with the consequences is important too. If anything positive comes of it - well good. If not, then they have lived with the results. Thedeathpenalty is a way of escaping responsibility in my view.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Yes....very different. One life is innocent, and one life is guilty!

There has been much conjecture about what the mother thinks. If the mother condones (or wants) the death of her offspring, then it is ok? Is that what really gives value to one's life? How can we justify one death and not another. I agree, it seems ironic that pro-life are pro-death penalty as well, but that isn't always the case.

I'd rather see a more consistent society.

So, are you pro-life and against the death penalty? Or did you just come back from your hiatus to come to a conversation about the death penalty, totally derail it by bringing up abortion, and then not answering questions posed to you?

I'm pro CHOICE, not pro abortion. I think a woman has the right to choose, that doesn't mean I think it's right for a woman to have an abortion (I'm not saying whether or not this is the case). A woman can do what she wants with her body. I'd she doesn't want a person growing inside her, she has every right to get it out if she wants. It's completely different from people on a jury deciding a man,s fate.

[JuniperWoolf]

Does anyone see the irony in the fact that most people who are against the death penalty are in favor of abortions?

First trimester foetuses don't have functioning central nervous systems, ie. brains. No brain function no cognizance or senses, no cognizance or senses no life (in the way that a fingernail isn't alive, or an egg).

And if anyone wants to make the argument that the unborn children aren't yet humans, then I could also make the argument that criminally insane people are no longer human either.

They have a functioning central nervous system.

[KCurtis]

Whenever something like the Magnotta or the Colorado shootings happens, if you read facebook say or the comments under a news article online, a great number of the comments are emphatically calling for the suspect's death. The fire in the tone of their posts is so strong, it's as though they take it personally - but of course it isn't personal, at least not to them, it's just something they saw on the news. It always seems to me like they get off on it, like many people are looking for a socially acceptable way to direct their bloodlust. Killing a killer has the veneer of righteousness.

So, death penalty thread. Am I the only one disturbed by the "string him up" crowd? What are your opinions on the death penalty in general?

No, you're not the only one disturbed by it. So am I. And it does not deter murderers. I am against the death penalty because there are too many variables. The most important reason for me is what if the person isn't guilty, and a mistake was made? This has happened more than a few times in the U.S., especially concerning black men imprisoned.
But if someone did this to my son, I would hunt the person down and kill him myself. I am, after all, human. And there is no rationality to this either, and it doesn't make it right.

[Phocion]

I am against the death penalty because they've proven that it does not deter criminals. Someone insane enough to do something like Magnotta did is not thinking about consequences. They are psychopaths who do not think about consequences.

I look at criminals like them as sick people who need help. I believe in punishment, particularly since when a person's life is taken then the lives of everyone in their circle, their family and friends and associates and greater community, are greatly and grievously affected.

I don't think there needs to be a division between punishment and rehabilitation. I think rehabilitation should be the goal of punishment, even if the person never gets out of prison. A person can be made to be an upstanding inmate. A person's life does not end when they go into prison, they just enter a much different sort of community. A person can learn, grow, no matter how sick and twisted they are. There are doctors there who can prescribe pills, give therapy.

I say throw such people in prison, throw away the key, and once they are inside do what we can to improve them. But they cannot be let to walk the streets - ever.

But I must also admit that I can fall prey to such bloodlust myself. The case of George Zimmerman down in Florida disturbs me so much I often find myself hoping they can execute him. I am not impervious to these base animal desires. Sometimes I respect them since the people who loved the victim deserve vengeance.

A criminal's primary motive for living after his crime should be to EARN the forgiveness of the victim's loved ones and of the community.

That's what I think on it. A little confused, kind of split, but overall against the death penalty, especially in Canada. I do not want the death penalty in this country.

My views are fairly similar to this. I think you missed out the most salient issue however; and that is the need to repudiate the state's right to kill its own citizens: this is a power the state should never have. As well as killing someone, it is also forcing others to take the life of another human being.

It is simply not justifiable, and never will be.

[Darcy88]

So, are you pro-life and against the death penalty? Or did you just come back from your hiatus to come to a conversation about the death penalty, totally derail it by bringing up abortion, and then not answering questions posed to you?

I'm pro CHOICE, not pro abortion. I think a woman has the right to choose, that doesn't mean I think it's right for a woman to have an abortion (I'm not saying whether or not this is the case). A woman can do what she wants with her body. I'd she doesn't want a person growing inside her, she has every right to get it out if she wants. It's completely different from people on a jury deciding a man,s fate.

I think the same on this issue. I'm pro-choice but against abortion. The abortion debate is stupid. Outlaw them and they will still happen.

I really don't see what the death penalty issue has to do with abortion. People should not be executed because human judgement is fallible. The justice system is simply not smooth and tight enough to be deciding whether people live or die.