miracles :religious or superstious?

[Paulclem]

Besides reading minds, what sort of things did the monks do that was miraculous?

Some of the techniques that Laura Day mentions in How to Rule the World from Your Couch is medianship, telepathy, remote viewing, precognition and healing. These are natural ways to be "intuitive" that she claims anyone can practice regardless of religious intention. One of the things I remember about her comments on telepathy is that embodying oneself, I guess mindfulness, is the only way to protect against the telepathy coming from others.

There is a list of miracle powers - remember this is a translated term and won't have the inference of divine power - and some of them are knowing others minds, travelling through the earth, being in more than one place at a time.

There are also other attributes that go along with meditation retreats by ascetics such as Tummo - inner fire - which makes the practitioner impervious to cold, being able to survive on just water, being able to run for long distances at an unusual speed. There are also qualities such as being able to perceive beings from other realms, such as ghosts, and, for advanced practitioners, being able to perceive Buddhas.

This is not a comprehensive list, but just those that I recall. The Buddha was also associated with various miracle powers.

[osho]

We know little about the constructs of this universe. Science has of course done a great deal in explaining some natural phenomena and yet things remain mostly a mystery and we cannot fathom the depths of the universe or human mind though we have made so many explorations. The world is really inexplicable.

That is why I believe miracles happen and I cannot say who make it happen

[YesNo]

I remember watching Shortcut to Nirvana: Kumbh Mela http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420723/ where Yog Mata Keiko Aikawa went underground in a small excavated area about 8 feet deep. The hole was covered so no light or air could enter. She came out 3 days later in the same condition as when she went in. That was the most amazing "miracle" that I saw on the video. I don't know why one would even consider doing something like that, but I was impressed and that might have been the point.

Here is more information on Yog Mata: http://pilotbaba.org/links/yogmata2.htm

I don't like considering any of these things miracles. They are evidence of things that can happen. Also, I don't like to associate them with a specific religion, whether that is Christianity or Buddhism or one of the other Indian religions, because these miraculous happenings tend to justify the possibly unrelated doctrines of a particular religion.

[Paulclem]

I remember watching Shortcut to Nirvana: Kumbh Mela http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420723/ where Yog Mata Keiko Aikawa went underground in a small excavated area about 8 feet deep. The hole was covered so no light or air could enter. She came out 3 days later in the same condition as when she went in. That was the most amazing "miracle" that I saw on the video. I don't know why one would even consider doing something like that, but I was impressed and that might have been the point.

Here is more information on Yog Mata: http://pilotbaba.org/links/yogmata2.htm

I don't like considering any of these things miracles. They are evidence of things that can happen. Also, I don't like to associate them with a specific religion, whether that is Christianity or Buddhism or one of the other Indian religions, because these miraculous happenings tend to justify the possibly unrelated doctrines of a particular religion.

Quite right. The Buddhist attitude is that they arise as a by-product of practice and should not be developed for their own sake.

Also, anyone can develop them, it is said, so they are associated with a certain level of mind rather than a religion.

From my own experience, i think that intuition and the occaisional odd occurrence are because we have a potential within us.

[YesNo]

I agree, Paulclem, that the miraculous events that occur are by-products of various kinds of practice and perhaps individual talents. There seem to be people with different religious intentions or no religious intention that are able to do similar things.

That such things occur at all amazes me and makes me feel like osho does that we haven't fathomed all the mysteries of the universe.

[Polednice]

I just wonder how people can say something is a myth just because they can't understand it. Amazing

I wonder how people can witness something they don't understand and thus conclude that it's a miracle. It's actually understanding that leads us to recognise myth; ignorance is what leads us to believe in magic.

[Paulclem]

I agree, Paulclem, that the miraculous events that occur are by-products of various kinds of practice and perhaps individual talents. There seem to be people with different religious intentions or no religious intention that are able to do similar things.

That such things occur at all amazes me and makes me feel like osho does that we haven't fathomed all the mysteries of the universe.

Agreed. There's naturally a lot of scepticism on the forum with the predominant scientific mindsets rather than religious ones. I think they represent a desire for truth, and equally a desire not to be duped - both positive minds.

A Chnese friend once said to me that Emptiness - in the Buddhist sense of highest reality - is a great puzzle, which implies it has to be worked out. I think the same can be said for truth. Does science provide us with the truth? It might. In the meantime there's this puzzle, the mystery, which might.

[IntravenousJava]

Perhaps there is ultimately nothing miraculous about miracles. Perhaps "miracles" are phenomena that lie just beyond the absolute limits of our comprehension, in which case they will never be satisfactorily explained, or just a bit outside paradigms we have yet to transcend, in which case there is still hope.

[Freudian Monkey]

I just wonder how people can say something is a myth just because they can't understand it. Amazing

Calling something a myth is an interpretation, it has nothing to do with understanding or not understanding the issue at hand. If there is no historical or scientific evidence for a character or an event appearing in ancient literature it is considered mythical/fictional by default.

[cafolini]

Deep or far enough, anything is a miracle. Deep or far enough, anything might be a religion. Deep or far enough, anything is magical. But on the surface, there are some laws that must be respected. Can't have the cake and eat too. Look up and down the street before you cross. ~ C A Cafolini