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Thread: Favorite Modern/Living/Non-English Poet

  1. #16
    A User, but Registered! tonywalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis View Post
    Well, I can only answer 1 and 2, as I'm not familiar with enough poetry to answer the rest. So 1 would be Yeats, and 2 would be "The Second Coming."
    Mutatis, I also have to go with Yeats "Second Coming". It's just such a powerful poem. It's the first poem as a kid that captured me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    Ariano Suassuna or Manoel de Barros

    Brazilian? Portuguese? Unfortunately, contemporary poetry outside the languages which we can read, is quite limited in terms of accessibility. Only a few major poets from contemporary France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Russia, Brazil, Argentina, etc... find their way into descent translations.
    Brazilian both, remains of the 40's generation.

    Brazilian governament started program of translation of brazilian authors outside, apparently the BRICKS raised some interest on brazilian Culture and we are the country of Frankfurt fair 2014. Not sure how this will go.

    Found from Manoel de Barros :

    http://www.amazon.com/Birds-Demoliti...7958168&sr=1-1

    Not sure about the translation, of course. He is a very musical poet, in the lines of portuguese lyrical tradition. Sounds simple, is bucolic, but manages very melodic lines, those people go quoting easily.

    Calling Ariano Suassuna a poet was a stretch from my part, he is more well know for his plays (with the traditional Auto form). A very comical old man, he does the link with popular - erudite from brazilian northwest. I would say, his use of popular language make him hard to translate.

  3. #18
    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
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    6. Your favorite non-Anglo poem
    Lament for Ignacio Sánchez Mejías by Lorca


    Yes... I was considering Lorca's poem as well.
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    Skol'er of Thinkery The Comedian's Avatar
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    Your favorite 20th century poet
    A lot to choose from here: Dylan Thomas, Wallace Stevens, and Yeats are all poets that I read often. But if the idea here is "favorite", I'd give Dylan Thomas the top spot, though I think the other two are better poets. Thomas's wordplay, Romantic sentiment, and natural settings just strike a chord with me.

    Your favorite 20th century poem
    I'll stick with Thomas and go with his "Poem in October", which I've read/listened-to so often that I have nearly memorized it. Others that I enjoy are Yeats' "Brown Penny" and "Second Coming", Stevens's "Idea of Order at Key West". . . . Oh, I also like Robert Lowell's "Epilogue" quite a bit.

    Your favorite living poet
    My preference for American writers will really show through here. I read a lot (well, compared to most) of contemporary poets: Mary Oliver, Billy Collins, Gary Snyder, Wendel Berry, and Jim Harrison are the ones that I have read either most often or most recently. Of these, I gotta go with Gary Snyder. I dig the hippie/spiritual/goofy thing that he does.

    Your favorite poem by a living poet
    Changes often. But as of my writing this I'll go with "Wild Geese" by Wendell Berry. Here's a like to it: http://writersalmanac.publicradio.or...ate=2003/08/05

    Your favorite non-Anglo poet
    Virgil -- I used to be able to read Latin, so I read the Aeneid in the original. But, sadly, I let that second language go unpracticed for far too long and am now pretty pathetic at it.

    Your favorite non-Anglo poem
    Aeneid
    Last edited by The Comedian; 05-25-2012 at 12:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Comedian View Post

    Your favorite non-Anglo poet
    Virgil -- I used to be able to read Latin, so I read the Aeneid in the original. But, sadly, I let that second language go unpracticed for far too long and am now pretty pathetic at it.

    Your favorite non-Anglo poem
    Aeneid
    I'll agree with this. Of the short amount of non-Anglo poetry I've read, this would it. As much as I loves Dante's comedy, something about The Aeneid just grabbed me.

  6. #21
    1. Your favorite 20th century poet

    I'd have to choose William Butler Yeats

    2. Your favorite 20th century poem

    I'm not sure, probably "The Circus Animals Desertion" by Yeats

    3. Your favorite living poet

    I don't really read contemporary poets so I can't name a good choice

    4. Your favorite poem by a living poet

    N/A

    5. Your favorite non-Anglo poet

    Homer

    6. Your favorite non-Anglo poem

    The Iliad
    Last edited by Venerable Bede; 05-25-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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  7. #22
    You CAN go Home Again Sindhu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    OK... there seems to be this frequent assumption that those who cite an older poem and poet (and especially one written in English) as their favorite, are either clueless or dismissive of anything more contemporary... or by a non-Anglo poet. So here's your chance to prove them wrong.

    Share with us, if you will, who is:

    1. Your favorite 20th century poet : Marianne Moore

    2. Your favorite 20th century poem:Poetry



    I, too, dislike it: there are things that are important beyond all
    this fiddle.
    Reading it, however, with a perfect contempt for it, one
    discovers in
    it after all, a place for the genuine.
    Hands that can grasp, eyes
    that can dilate, hair that can rise
    if it must, these things are important not because a

    high-sounding interpretation can be put upon them but because
    they are
    useful. When they become so derivative as to become
    unintelligible,
    the same thing may be said for all of us, that we
    do not admire what
    we cannot understand: the bat
    holding on upside down or in quest of something to

    eat, elephants pushing, a wild horse taking a roll, a tireless wolf
    under
    a tree, the immovable critic twitching his skin like a horse that
    feels a
    flea, the base-
    ball fan, the statistician--
    nor is it valid
    to discriminate against 'business documents and

    school-books'; all these phenomena are important. One must
    make a distinction
    however: when dragged into prominence by half poets, the
    result is not poetry,
    nor till the poets among us can be
    'literalists of
    the imagination'--above
    insolence and triviality and can present

    for inspection, 'imaginary gardens with real toads in them', shall
    we have
    it. In the meantime, if you demand on the one hand,
    the raw material of poetry in
    all its rawness and
    that which is on the other hand
    genuine, you are interested in poetry.



    3. Your favorite living poet:Hoshang Merchant and Eunice D' Souza (both Indian poets who write in English)

    4. Your favorite poem by a living poet:Advice to Women (by Eunice D'Souza)
    Keep cats
    if you want to learn to cope with
    the otherness of lovers.
    Otherness is not always neglect --
    Cats return to their litter trays
    when they need to.
    Don't cuss out of the window
    at their enemies.
    That stare of perpetual surprise
    in those great green eyes
    will teach you
    to die alone.

    5. Your favorite non-Anglo poet: Pablo Neruda

    6. Your favorite non-Anglo poem
    The Lost Child


    by Sitor Situmorang (Indonesian Poet)

    In the midday heat
    a speck appears on the lake.
    The anxious mother runs down to the beach
    to welcome her long-awaited child.

    The boat takes shape.
    As she stares her tears flow -
    the child has come back from his journeying.
    The moment he sets foot, mother embraces him.

    Father sits at the centre of the house
    as if he couldn't care less.
    The child is crestfallen at his mother's side -
    but men know to restrain their feelings.

    The child sits down, is told to talk,
    a chicken is slaughtered, rice cooks.
    The whole village is asking,
    'Are you married, any children?'

    The lost child has come back
    but now he knows no-one.
    How many harvests have been and gone?
    What has happened?

    The whole village is asking,
    'Any children, how many?'
    The lost child is silent -
    He has questions of his own.

    At dusk after the meal
    his mother moves closer, she wants him to speak.
    The child stares, the mother asks
    if it is cold in Europe.

    The child is silent, remembering forgotten things -
    the cold of Europe, the seasons of its cities.
    His mother is quiet, has ceased talking -
    no resentment, only joy.

    Night has come, mother is asleep,
    father has been snoring some time.
    The waves swish on the beach.
    They know the child has not returned.
    I'm nobody, who are you?
    Are you nobody too?
    There's a pair of us, don't tell!
    They'd banish us, you know!

    How dreary to be somebody!

  8. #23
    Alea iacta est. mortalterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    6. Your favorite non-Anglo poem
    Lament for Ignacio Sánchez Mejías by Lorca


    Yes... I was considering Lorca's poem as well.
    I thought we were keeping things to the last hundred years or so. Now, I see everybody naming the Divine Comedy, The Iliad, and The Aeneid.
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  9. #24
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    I was gonna say, I coulda swore I saw mortal say his favorite poem was The Divine Comedy prior to this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonywalt View Post
    Mutatis, I also have to go with Yeats "Second Coming". It's just such a powerful poem. It's the first poem as a kid that captured me.
    Same here--it was the first poem I ever read where I thought, "Wow, that was awesome . . . what the hell did I just read?" So I went back and read it again . . . and again and again. It's the mystery of the poem, along with the imagery. I can't go back and give one book that got me into reading, but I always know Yeats's poem was where I really got what poetry could do.
    Last edited by Mutatis-Mutandis; 05-26-2012 at 03:20 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    OK... there seems to be this frequent assumption that those who cite an older poem and poet (and especially one written in English) as their favorite, are either clueless or dismissive of anything more contemporary... or by a non-Anglo poet. So here's your chance to prove them wrong.
    I suspect this thread has come about because of my recent comments in another one. If that is not, in fact, the case, then please excuse me for what I'm about to say.

    I think it is a gross misrepresentation to suggest that I said "[citing] an older poem or poet as [one's] favorite [means one is] either clueless or dismissive of anything more contemporary." I think the errors in your assumption are many.

    First, my interest in the unawareness of modern literature, owed not primarily to the discussion of Canonical poets, but rather to the dearth of discussion about modern ones. It's not that one mentions Shakespeare that I find so telling, but rather that one does not mention someone more modern. I would also point out that this discussion largely concerned modern poetic technique, which would, presumably, entail a discussion of modern poets. When pressed on the issue in the other thread, someone provided a list of the so-called modern poets mentioned in the thread, which turned out to be a list of mostly dead poets including people like Tennyson.

    Also, I think you misidentify or misrepresent the underlying issue, which was not whether Shakespeare might be applicable but whether the point of devoting oneself to such aged varieties of literature was, much as I see this point of this thread, simply a means of demonstrating publicly one's sophistication. After all, this thread, like the other one, seems mostly a vehicle to "prove them wrong," as you say, while simultaneously excusing everyone from a substantive conversation of the pertinent issues. I can't count the number of threads I've seen on this forum where one is invited to list one's favorite novels, favorite lines or favorite writers, and these sorts of threads constitute a sort of non-conversation in which the responses are mostly uniform and differ only insofar as to how one fills in the blanks.

    Today, a love for Shakespeare is seldom automatic, as Shakespeare presents great difficulties of language for any modern reader. This is to say that one must LEARN to love Shakespeare, with concordance and lexicon in hand. Bukowski, on the other hand, is immediately accessible to any modern reader, so I find any protestations to love his work more plausible for a modern reader. I suppose I am saying that love of Shakespeare results most often from a formal education in Shakespeare or a desire to pretend that one has had such an education. There are no such impediments to reading Bukowski; moreover, what Bukowski says is more immediate to our time and consequently, more relevant--even if one can rightly say that Shakespeare is universal. But in the thread in question the person who brought up Bukowski was instantly rebuked for her presumably "bad" taste.

    Imagine an interview with Elvis in which all he talked about were Mozart and Bach. Could sense be made of such an interview? If all Elvis had been concerned with were, in fact, Mozart and Bach, I can't imagine we'd even know who he was.

  11. #26
    BadWoolf JuniperWoolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuntpickle View Post
    Also, I think you misidentify or misrepresent the underlying issue, which was not whether Shakespeare might be applicable but whether the point of devoting oneself to such aged varieties of literature was, much as I see this point of this thread, simply a means of demonstrating publicly one's sophistication. After all, this thread, like the other one, seems mostly a vehicle to "prove them wrong," as you say, while simultaneously excusing everyone from a substantive conversation of the pertinent issues. I can't count the number of threads I've seen on this forum where one is invited to list one's favorite novels, favorite lines or favorite writers, and these sorts of threads constitute a sort of non-conversation in which the responses are mostly uniform and differ only insofar as to how one fills in the blanks.
    But those threads often lead to conversations about the writers or works mentioned. Look at this thread, it's only on the second page and we've already seen a couple of mini-interactions between posters.

    1. Your favorite 20th century poet
    Edna St. Vincent Millay

    2. Your favorite 20th century poem
    I, being born a woman and distressed
    By all the needs and notions of my kind,
    Am urged by your propinquity to find
    Your person fair, and feel a certain zest
    To bear your body's weight upon my breast:
    So subtly is the fume of life designed,
    To clarify the pulse and cloud the mind,
    And leave me once again undone, possessed.
    Think not for this, however, the poor treason
    Of my stout blood against my staggering brain,
    I shall remember you with love, or season
    My scorn wtih pity, -- let me make it plain:
    I find this frenzy insufficient reason
    For conversation when we meet again.

    3. Your favorite living poet
    Leonard Cohen

    4. Your favorite poem by a living poet
    I long to hold some lady
    For my love is far away,
    And will not come tomorrow
    And was not here today.

    There is no flesh so perfect
    As on my lady's bone,
    And yet it seems so distant
    When I am all alone:

    As though she were a masterpiece
    In some castled town,
    That pilgrims come to visit
    And priests to copy down.

    Alas, I cannot travel
    To a love I have so deep
    Or sleep too close beside
    A love I want to keep.

    But I long to hold some lady,
    For flesh is warm and sweet.
    Cold skeletons go marching
    Each night beside my feet.

    5. Your favorite non-Anglo poet
    Rimbaud.

    6. Your favorite non-Anglo poem
    This is my favorite translation of Ophelia but I can't find it online, so I had to type it out from one of my books last year:

    I

    Where the stars sleep in the calm black stream,
    Like some great lily, pale Ophelia floats,
    Slowly floats, wound in her veils like a dream.
    ... -Half heard in the woods, halloos from distant throats.

    A thousand years has sad Ophelia gone,
    Glimmering on the water, a phantom fair.
    A thousand years her sad, distracted song
    Has waked the answering evening air.

    The wind kisses her breasts and shakes
    Her long veils lying softly on the stream;
    The shivering willows weep upon her cheeks;
    Across her dreaming brows the brushes lean.

    The wrinkled water lilies round her sigh:
    And once she wakes a nest of sleeping things
    And hears the tiny sound of frightened wings;
    Mysterious music falls from the starry sky.

    II

    O pale Ophelia, beautiful as snow!
    Yes, die, child, die, and drift away to sea.
    For from the peaks of Norway cold winds blow
    And whisper low of bitter liberty.

    For a breath that moved your long heavy hair
    Brought strange sounds to your wandering thoughts;
    Your heart heard Nature singing everywhere,
    In the sighs of trees and the whispering of night.

    For the voice of the seas, endless and immense,
    Breaks your young breast, too human and too sweet;
    For on an April morning a poor young prince,
    Poor lunatic, sat wordless at your feet.

    Sky! Love! Liberty! What a dream, poor young
    Thing! You sank before him, snow before fire,
    Your own great vision strangling your tongue,
    Infinity flaring in your blue eye!

    III

    And the poet says that by the starlight you came
    To pick the flowers that you loved so much, at night,
    And he saw, wound in her veils like a dream,
    Like some great lily, pale Ophelia float.
    Last edited by JuniperWoolf; 05-26-2012 at 09:27 AM.
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    -Pi


  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuntpickle View Post
    When pressed on the issue in the other thread, someone provided a list of the so-called modern poets mentioned in the thread, which turned out to be a list of mostly dead poets including people like Tennyson.
    Hey, you insinuated that certain people knew nothing of poets who wrote within the last century, and I simply pointed out that plenty of authors who have were mentioned. I never said they were modern, I only listed poets according to your stipulation. Now who's being misrepresentative?

    And, for god's sake man, I already admitted Tennyson was mistakenly added to the list. What, do you take some sort of petty pleasure in pointing out a simple mistake even after their person admitted he was wrong?
    I can't count the number of threads I've seen on this forum where one is invited to list one's favorite novels, favorite lines or favorite writers, and these sorts of threads constitute a sort of non-conversation in which the responses are mostly uniform and differ only insofar as to how one fills in the blanks.
    1. Conversations often evolve from these non-conversations.

    2. Just so you know, there's this little button you can click that says "New Thread," and then you can start whatever conversation you wish. It's really cool!

    Today, a love for Shakespeare is seldom automatic, as Shakespeare presents great difficulties of language for any modern reader. This is to say that one must LEARN to love Shakespeare, with concordance and lexicon in hand. Bukowski, on the other hand, is immediately accessible to any modern reader, so I find any protestations to love his work more plausible for a modern reader. I suppose I am saying that love of Shakespeare results most often from a formal education in Shakespeare or a desire to pretend that one has had such an education.
    I've been taught a ton of Shakespeare, even took a class on him. Hell, I've taught Shakespeare, and I still can't stand him. I've tried really hard. I'm sure it's partly due to me not particularly liking reading drama, but I don't like his sonnets, either. I get his genius and think he deserves his spot in history, but I just don't dig his language.

    I'm not really sure how that's relevant, just felt like throwing it in there.
    Last edited by Mutatis-Mutandis; 05-26-2012 at 03:59 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis View Post
    Hey, you insinuated that certain people knew nothing of poets who wrote within the last century, and I simply pointed out that plenty of authors who have were mentioned. I never said they were modern, I only listed poets according to your stipulation. Now who's being misrepresentative?

    And, for god's sake man, I already admitted Tennyson was mistakenly added to the list. What, do you take some sort of petty pleasure in pointing out a simple mistake even after their person admitted he was wrong?
    The "last century" was an arbitrary hyperbole you chose to interpret literally, something I find prevalent among the younger generations. I wasn't trying to misrepresent the conversation; you tried to dispute a point I wasn't really making. I mean, surely you understand that sort of idiomatic expression.

    I assure you that had I wanted to shame you, I would have named you. Mentioning Tennyson did sort of prove my point, by the way. Yeats wasn't much better (he's been dead almost eighty years).

    In the same conversation, just before you provided your list, you seemed to purposely misconstrue what I had said by cutting the quote short.

    You quoted me as follows:

    Should a writer be familiar with his predecessors? Of course.
    You replied:

    This is (and the rest of your post, except the little rant about us discussions music, which was a sidetrack discussion in the first place) pretty much what a lot of us have been saying.
    I replied by pointing out that what I was saying was entirely different and that this was clear if one simply kept reading.

    Consider:

    Should a writer be familiar with his predecessors? Of course. But he has a more immediate need to be familiar with his immediate predecessors. He isn't concerned with an academic approach to the Canon, but rather his immediate cultural antecedents.
    Of course, when I replied I actually said the following:

    It's unfortunate that you cut the quote off where you did since the following sentence expresses something very different from what everyone else has been saying. My point was that, yes, artists should acquaint themselves with their predecessors, but they should acquaint themselves with more culturally relevant predecessors. You know, someone who has lived in the last century--sort of like how you guys relate to music.
    You replied to this with your list. Now it seems to me that you never really addressed the disparity I was pointing out. You, yourself, were discussing Nirvana, and yet when you tried to rebut my point, you provided a list with Yeats and Tennyson. It seems as though you're trying to just argue with me without even considering what I'm truly trying to say. I mean, can you really claim that Yeats is your "immediate cultural antecedent," which was my point?

    My guess is that you're doing this because the point is perhaps plain and true, and so perhaps you are pursuing a fairly legalistic defense in order to avoid the truth. I mean, for Chrissake, in this very thread in which people have been tasked with demonstrating their appreciation for modern poetry, we're back to talking about Homer and Virgil! And several persons have confessed to not really being aware of modern poetry, which was precisely my point.

    I suspect that most people only interact with poetry insofar as education requires it. I suspect people with no real interest in poetry are acquainted only with the stuff in the Norton anthologies. Surely, persons who have an extra-academic interest in poetry would discuss, I don't know, the last poem they saw in this or that journal, the last edition of Best American, a reading given by Billy Collins--something that demonstrates a genuine interest, rather than simply hopping on a bandwagon of sophistication.

    Surely, you can understand why someone trying to be a poet TODAY should probably concern himself with poetry being written TODAY (by which I do not literally mean this very day, in case you are preparing another list). And surely, we can agree that the thread in question dealt with how people become poets, right?
    Last edited by stuntpickle; 05-26-2012 at 05:20 PM.

  14. #29
    Registered User miyako73's Avatar
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  15. #30
    I suspect that most people only interact with poetry insofar as education requires it. I suspect people with no real interest in poetry are acquainted only with the stuff in the Norton anthologies. Surely, persons who have an extra-academic interest in poetry would discuss, I don't know, the last poem they saw in this or that journal, the last edition of Best American, a reading given by Billy Collins--something that demonstrates a genuine interest, rather than simply hopping on a bandwagon of sophistication.
    I believe you do have a point here and I have to admit that I am guilty of this as well. I never was in to poetry until the first years of university and there the only exposure was to the poets of the canon. While I do read some poetry for a pastime as well, I usually gravitate towards prose works. And when I do read poetry it's generally something old like Petrarch's works. I think one of the problems is that current poetry slips under the radar and doesn't demand the same attention and respect that a novel does. Thus, I don't feel compelled to read a new poem in the same way that I do to read the newest winner of the Pullitzer or Man Booker prizes.
    “Yesterday's rose endures in its name, we hold empty names.”
    ― Umberto Eco, The Name of the Rose

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