http://www.online-literature.com/for...52#post1138652
OrphanPip
Punctuated Equilibrium, it is still a form of gradualism, the point of PE has to do with discrete changes in the rate of change. On the other side, Phyletic Gradualism argues that changes in the rate are more continuous and less radical. Although, neither the PE or the PG side is arguing about substantial differences in rates of evolutionary change.
stuntpickle
Punctuated equilibrium came about because the previously understood mechanism of the gradual accumulation of changes was not adequately demonstrated in the fossil record. My understanding is that the fossil record does not represent an abundance of incremental change that would necessarily surround all the distinct speciation. My understanding is that PE came about to rectify this problem.
Dawkins explicitly defends PE. He usually just says something like "the fossil record adequately demonstrates my theory of evolution" when really the Christian is lodging the same complaint as the PE supporter, and Dawkins knows it but doesn't want to touch it with a ten-foot stick.
http://www.historum.com/blogs/killca...ins-page2.html
The Bio-info is in Genesis verse 1. Can you tell me how life started according to evolution ... this would take a while.Can you please re-state your point? Or at least give us a precis of your evidence
The structure of the extremely active quatum world, predicts measures of randomness and its variablity, if one chose to 'test' it. Observe = Test, randomness, and variablity. Much like one would have to assume when ... for example, describing a partical wave. If I took this approach I would stress the use of computational gematria, SY, I-Ching, and a binary [trinary better] set that flips 0's & 1's in 32 ways, much like computers. I would also have to include the formulae of the divisibility of 37, which would relate heavily as far as encryption. I would have to link the hebrew equivalent for the word compute, and 'figures of speech' like 'count the number of it' to the text; which i can.
MorpheusSandman
The problem with God, speaking scientifically, is that it offers absolutely no testable predictions.
[Predictions of where infiniti, PI or God begin or end are irrelevant; the text of the scriptures state specifically state a premise alpha-numerically, if the hypothesis can be proved, its correct ... as far as the cosmos or bio-genesis goes ... this idea doesn't need to be expanded beyond this level]
That's because "beginning" can simply mean "point that time itself began," but that doesn't mean there can't be something natural that can't create spacetime itself. Well, the Judeo-Christo-Islamic religions predicted that God created the universe, even "out of nothing" as I recall Catholics claiming. The Kalam argument provided the reasoning that if something begins to exist it has a cause. So there has been for some time a "theory" within these various religions about the origin of the universe.
[Cause and even retro-causality is it's own reason for being; Aristotle's tree-seed example: everything a tree needs to reproduce itself is contained within the seed ... provided the conditions for it]
YesNo
The Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe, in the 21st century, provided the confirming scientific data that our universe--yes--had a beginning. And not only did it have a beginning, the standard model of cosmology insisted it came out of nothing and so did space and time. So, whatever caused it is not in space or time. Apply the Kalam argument and a core component of the Judeo-Christo-Islamic theory receives a major confirmation.
Although the Kalam argument doesn't give you any specific God, it gives you the existence of something capable of starting off the universe outside of space and time since that was created as well ...Ironically, Krauss is an atheistic cosmologist whose very work is validating a religious position he does not support.
Ancient man looked at empty space (empty space meaning "empty of tangible sensible matter") and they said "nothing comes from nothing" because they defined "nothing" as "absence of tangible, sensible matter" and they never saw something come out of it. This should not be a controversial claim. They didn't realize that there was even a difference between "nothing" (absence of any thing at all) and "nothing" (absence of tangible, sensible matter).
Luke quotes Rees who states: "We’ve realised ever since Einstein that empty space can have a structure such that it can be warped and distorted. Even if shrunk down to a ‘point’, it is latent with particles and forces – still a far richer construct than the philosopher’s ‘nothing’."
I'm not a member of a Judeo-Christo-Islamic group, but I don't mind giving credit where it is due. Part of their worldview, if I understand it, has been validated. It hasn't all been validated.
stuntpickle
The philosophical concept of "nothing" is a priori and does not utilize the senses to arrive at the concept. Rational discourse is one of thought as opposed to observation. The concept of "nothing" came about within the context of the negation of being rather than observation of space. The concept of nothing did not come about because a philosopher discovered he was swimming in nothing, but rather because he wondered why he and everything else existed.
Let's just go ahead and talk about the elephant in the room. As of right now, the scientific consensus is that the universe had an absolute edge. This is incredibly disconcerting to scientists because the edge is also an absolute limitation of science. Many scientists are simply unhappy that they seem to have discovered an absolute constraint of their own discipline. What has resulted is a wild attempt to turn science in on itself to avoid the edge. String theory isn't even really a theory; it's a metaphysical discussion about some far-off possible theory. Hawking's quantum tunneling genesis of the universe has not come from a necessity of the theory, but rather it is an attempt to avoid precisely what Hawking knows, and has stated, to be the alternative--extra-physical causation. Science is now in revolt against its own findings, and string theory is simply the foremost symptom.
I think I have a grasp on what you stated here. My point is that in public discussions people like Dawkins propound PG as a mechanism, yet they defend the fossil record from the prospective of PE. The reason a lot of fundamentalist Christians argue about lack of transitional forms isn't because Christians are stupid, but because most evolutionists are reluctant to actually discuss the different interpretations of their own theory, as they presume that any discussion about disagreement or lack of unity within the discussion of evolution will be interpreted as a weakness of the theory. I do not think the theory of evolution is in jeopardy, but I do believe that the proposed mechanisms are now being hotly contested.
http://www.historum.com/blogs/killca...ins-page2.html
Well, though I would generally agree with you [science] ... [but] the question still plagues them ... also punctuated equilibrium and transititional forms ... but they can't give up on these questions because it's just to important. [It involves the origin, creation, evolution of life]
I've mentioned the Torah has 304805 words ... Does everyone agree Genesis 1:1 states: In the Beginning Created God, the Heavens, and the Earth?
http://www.historum.com/philosophy-p...onalism-2.html
The subjects treated in Aristotle's Metaphysics (substance, causality, the nature of being, and the existence of God) fixed the content of metaphysical speculation for centuries. Among the medieval Scholastic philosophers, metaphysics was known as the “transphysical science” on the assumption that, by means of it, the scholar philosophically could make the transition from the physical world to a world beyond sense perception.
http://www.historum.com/blogs/killca...ml#comment1491
Aristotle regarded the world as made up of individuals (substances) occurring in fixed natural kinds (species). Each individual has its built-in specific pattern of development and grows toward proper self-realization as a specimen of its type. Growth, purpose, and direction are thus built into [this] nature. Science and philosophy must therefore balance, not simply choose between, the claims of empiricism (observation and sense experience) and formalism (rational deduction) ... One of the most distinctive of Aristotle's philosophic contributions was a new notion of causality. Each thing or event, he thought, has more than one “reason” that helps to explain what, why, and where
[The Premise is that 'In The Beginning' everything was complete [in Gen 1:1] and that in Gen 1:2 'the earth became null or void'; beginning a re-creative narrative from the earth's or a person's stand point]
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/...historyid=ab83
Several mythologies, including one developed in China, begin with the splitting in two of a cosmic egg. The Germanic version begins with a magic emptiness, one of the most characteristic features of creation stories. The Hebrews imagine a first moment when all is void, with darkness on the face of the deep. In Greece the story begins with Chaos, meaning a gaping emptiness. In Egypt and Mesopotamia a boundless ocean sets the primal scene.
[The Dimensioning of Gen 1:1 and the growth and decay constants of John 1:1, also reflected in the decay rate of the ages of the patriarchs which is also based on Euler's formula which wasn't dicovered until the modern age; can be reflected in certain symmetries, such as the Ulam Spiral, other art forms of this type, and symetries of harmony, like musical notation in islamic practice, as well as being seen in mesopotamia in circle, astrological, and time-based forms based on 6, 60 and 360. Far East and Indian forms representing an 8 fold fold path or grid that displays anti-symetries]
Does any anyone here ... doubt ... the similarities or 'patterns' in John 1:1... have mirroring and reflective qualities with Genesis 1:1?. [Euler and PI]
Fritjof Capra (1939 - ) Austrian-born famous theoretical high-energy physicist and ecologist wrote:
"Modern physics has thus revealed that every subatomic particle not only performs an energy dance, but also is an energy dance; a pulsating process of creation and destruction. The dance of Shiva is the dancing universe, the ceaseless flow of energy going through an infinite variety of patterns that melt into one another’’.For the modern physicists, then Shiva’s dance is the dance of subatomic matter. As in Hindu mythology, it is a continual dance of creation and destruction involving the whole cosmos; the basis of all existence and of all natural phenomenon.
In our times, physicists have used the most advanced technology to portray the patterns of the cosmic dance."
(source: The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism - By Fritjof Capra p. 241-245).
There is a striking resemblance between the equivalence of mass and energy, symbolized by Shiva's cosmic dance and the Western theory, first expounded by Einstein, which calculates the amount of energy contained in a subatomic particle by multiplying its mass by the square of the speed of light: E = mc2.
( Source: Richard Waterstone, " India: Living Wisdom" p.135 )
http://www.christianityboard.com/top...ost__p__145013
A team of researchers from the Astrobiology Centre (INTA-CSIC) has shown that hydrogen cyanide, urea and other substances considered essential to the formation of the most basic biological molecules can be obtained from the salt Prussian blue. "We have shown that when Prussian blue is dissolved in ammoniac solutions it produces hydrogen cyanide, a substance that could have played a fundamental role in the creation of the first bio-organic molecules, as well as other precursors to the origin of life
http://www.craigdemo.co.uk/bigbang.htm
One of the most surprising recent discoveries about the universe is not only that it is expanding, but that it is expanding at an accelerating rate. What this means is that extrapolating backwards we find the universe expanding more and more slowly. The initial state wasn't one of maximum acceleration, it was one of minimum acceleration. So, rather than an explosion, the expansion of the universe resembles " organic growth". There is a steady increase in the momentum and energy of galaxies as time passes, which is not just a reversal of entropy, but also seems to involve the creation of energy itself. It seem that the creation of energy and the creation of order are taking place throughout all the galaxies, and this process is the very same process that was responsible for the Big Bang - the creation of our universe ex nihilo.
http://www.craigdemo.co.uk/geneticpatterns.htm
Previously, Vernon Jenkins, discovered a mathematical pattern encoded within the Hebrew text of the Old Testament creation narratives. I was deeply impressed by the mathematical consistency of the patterns that Vernon discovered and I studied his work for about 2 years, contributing insights now and then. One of the things I discovered early on was the occurrence of the ratio 1: 1.2732, the ratio for a squared circle. This led Vernon to the discovery of pi in Genesis 1. This, in turn, led Peter Bluer to the discovery of e {Euler's Formula] in Genesis 1 also.
The patterns that Vernon discovered in Genesis were very clear and strong, so I reasoned that these patterns were unlikely to be the product of chance, and so were probably put into the narrative deliberately. I surmised that if God had encoded the patterns in the creation narrative, then perhaps the patterns would also manifest in the things that God supposedly created - ie in the living things He made. The mathematical patterns found in the genetic code indicate Intelligent Design.
http://www.historum.com/religion/368...ce-god-43.html
The problem comes to a head in cosmology where it is hard to explain what happened in the early universe without asking why. It also crops up in the study of our internal, psychological world and in particular in the study of consciousness. Reductionist scientists hover like vultures around this last refuge of the secondary qualities of mind, seeking explanations through physical brain function. Daniel Dennett, with his bold title Consciousness Explained, and Francis Crick in The Astonishing Hypothesis feel that they have achieved this in all but detail. Others are not so sure. However much you correlate brain function with sensations, thought patterns and so on, all you find is brain function. You never find subjective experience in itself. To the atheists this is mere pedantry but it is on this issue, the so-called hard problem of consciousness, that numerous conferences and publications are based. The issue which is still the most divisive is that of the locality of the mind. If, as the atheists believe, it is entirely rooted in physical brain function, then they feel they can forget about the secondary qualities, the spirit and the soul, for good.
http://www.physorg.com/news160994102.html
Prime numbers have intrigued curious thinkers for centuries. On one hand, prime numbers seem to be randomly distributed among the natural numbers with no other law than that of chance. But on the other hand, the global distribution of primes reveals a remarkably smooth regularity. This combination of randomness and regularity has motivated researchers to search for "PATTERN" in the distribution of primes that may eventually shed light on their ultimate nature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_Automata
A cellular automaton (pl. cellular automata, abbrev. CA) is a discrete model studied in computability theory, mathematics, physics, complexity science, theoretical biology and microstructure modeling. It consists of a regular grid of cells, each in one of a finite number of states, such as "On" and "Off". Cellular automata are also called "cellular spaces", "tessellation automata". Cellular automata have been proposed for public key cryptography. The one way function is the evolution of a finite CA whose inverse is believed to be hard to find. Given the rule, anyone can easily calculate future states, but it appears to be very difficult to calculate previous states.
[For the lack of a better analogy right now, I'll use this example as a means of Alpha-Numeric Patterns of Symmetry]
http://www.halexandria.org/dward012.htm
In the Tarot, the Fool card symbolizes the Creative Force or Power that initiates and guides the Universe. “The Fool card is actually the God card in the Tarot.” ... Incidentally, 22 is also the number of letters in the Hebrew Alphabet, which due to the Geometry of Alphabets is a highly profound grouping of language symbols. ... One might note an underlying, cyclical nature -- from the emphasis on the individual ... to the cultural/tradition nature ... to the return to the individual (but now on a higher level) .... in each of the Cycles. This cyclical nature is repeated in [Myth], Astrology, Numerology, in the Tao de Ching, and ultimately, in the hierarchical aspects of the [Sephiroth] Tree of Life. It is cycles within cycles within cycles -- much in the same pattern of fractals in Chaos Theory.
http://www.historum.com/blogs/killca...ml#comment1148
XIII. THE LACK OF A TRANSITIONAL EVOLUTIONARY RECORD
[This is for the scientific community, just to make things fair. This is just off the top of my head, so educate me!]
Why? The lack of scientifically backed transistional fossils, out of the [100's of 1000's?] of species; with very few, if any of these puntuatially equilibriated forms being seen. Within each [genome speciation?] varies very little over time and within acceptable parameters. We see species come and go like the dinosaur; but within each biological age the survivors remain relatively unchanged. At certain biological stages we see life almost spontaneously appear, yet some species like the cockroach, trylobite and alligator remain relatively unchanged. We see this going back millions of years.
The answer I'm looking for is the original species, the transitional fossil, and the current or last one?
The Cosmo [PATTERN], the Katebo [kaos], the recreative process [cosmo2bio processes], evolution [bio-environ process], none of which contradict the Bible or science ... Kaos means without form, order, unsubstatiated, kaotic, desolate, 0 a NULL form, without the direct means of ordered forms, the nothingness of Gen 1:2 as contrasted with the completenes of Gen 1:1 ...
Other Sources
http://www.online-literature.com/for....php?p=1138652
http://www.historum.com/religion/347...d-origins.html
http://www.historum.com/religion/347...rigins-11.html
http://www.historum.com/religion/347...rigins-12.html
http://www.historum.com/religion/312...lution-80.html
http://www.historum.com/blogs/killca...-response.html
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Originally Posted by KillCarneyKlans
