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Thread: does conflict solve conflict?

  1. #16
    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
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    Well... in your hypothetical situation you have to recognize that in order to maintain dignity you have to have once had it to start with.
    Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
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  2. #17
    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
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    Returning to the OP... Cacian seems to be asking about the value of conflict in literature (as opposed to conflict in real life)... building upon our earlier debate concerning conflict and villains in literature. Again... I am not one who looks toward literature for its utilitarian worth. I suspect that excessive violence in the arts has an impact... especially upon the weak-minded or highly susceptible. On the other hand, I think making a case for a clear cause would be near impossible. One might cite the Renaissance Lords who had the most elegant and sophisticated artistic tastes... in painting, poetry, music, literature, and philosophy... who nevertheless were among the most bloodthirsty, rapacious, and murderous.
    Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
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  3. #18
    Registered User Delta40's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=JuniperWoolf;1136895]Well, it is difficult to avoid the mud once someone starts flinging it without giving up your position completely./QUOTE]

    Choose your battles and maintain your dignity. There is no shame in bowing out at this point. Once the mud is slung, it's obvious people are not interested in reaching a solution, nobody is willing to agree to disagree and the debate or conflict simply deteriorates as it progresses.
    The Rotten Apple Injures its Neighbour

  4. #19
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Delta40;1136957]
    Quote Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf View Post
    Well, it is difficult to avoid the mud once someone starts flinging it without giving up your position completely./QUOTE]

    Choose your battles and maintain your dignity. There is no shame in bowing out at this point. Once the mud is slung, it's obvious people are not interested in reaching a solution, nobody is willing to agree to disagree and the debate or conflict simply deteriorates as it progresses.
    Choose your battles and maintain your dignity
    This reminds of the olden days where they use to have a gun battle between tow people and a judge,especially in western films as to solve a dispute so whoever shot first was the winner or quit.
    I cannot remember what it's called?
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  5. #20
    quite like george NikolaiI's Avatar
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    A duel.

    I am reminded of something Thich Nhat Hanh said, that being happy and peaceful is the basis of peace work.

  6. #21
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiI View Post
    A duel.

    I am reminded of something Thich Nhat Hanh said, that being happy and peaceful is the basis of peace work.
    Hi NikolaiI thank you.
    I have never heard of Thich Nhat Hanh haha but peace is a funny thing isn't because from what I understand is that peace always comes after a deluge if you like.
    In other words would one say that peace as a concept would only be because of war/conflict/problems ect? That without the latest the peace won't be?
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  7. #22
    Registered User kiki1982's Avatar
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    I think peace in that case means something different than the peace you talk about.

    The Dalai Lama would agree that the only way to spread peace in the world is by being peaceful (havng peace of mind, not being distracted by worldly concerns etc.) yourself.

    Conflict only arouses more conflict. You can reach a concensus after a conflict (in the best case), but there will always remain the feeling that there is no peaceful state.
    One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.

    "Je crains [...] que l'me ne se vide ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scne VII)

  8. #23
    BadWoolf JuniperWoolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delta40 View Post
    Choose your battles and maintain your dignity. There is no shame in bowing out at this point. Once the mud is slung, it's obvious people are not interested in reaching a solution, nobody is willing to agree to disagree and the debate or conflict simply deteriorates as it progresses.
    That would mean that you're being forced out of a discussion in which you want to participate. That is weakness, but more importantly, lately on litnet there have been very few interesting and active discussions so it'd be a ***** not to participate in the few we do manage to get going. If I want to participate in a debate and someone pops in who doesn't stick to the topic and throws personal insults around, the only way to continue without contributing to a thread which is "destructive, violent and disrespectful," is to sift the pertinent points from the same post which is inferring that I'm a gender-confused hillbilly and openly calling me stupid, while somehow completely ignoring it. That's not an easy thing to do.

    These last few months SD has been a huge headache. Then again, we've gotten some interesting new members too.
    Last edited by JuniperWoolf; 05-02-2012 at 08:11 AM.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf View Post
    That would mean that you're being forced out of a discussion in which you want to participate. That is weakness, but more importantly, lately on litnet there have been very few interesting and active discussions so it'd be a ***** not to participate in the few we do manage to get going. If I want to participate in a debate and someone pops in who doesn't stick to the topic and throws personal insults around, the only way to continue without contributing to a thread which is "destructive, violent and disrespectful," is to sift the pertinent points from the same post which is inferring that I'm a gender-confused hillbilly and openly calling me stupid, while somehow completely ignoring it. That's not an easy thing to do.

    These last few months SD has been a huge headache. Then again, we've gotten some interesting new members too.
    Maybe you and stlukes should just put each other on ignore.

  10. #25
    BadWoolf JuniperWoolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis View Post
    Maybe you and stlukes should just put each other on ignore.
    You can't ignore a post in a debate, what if they make a pertinant point that changes the game and you just blunder on completely oblivious?
    __________________
    "Personal note: When I was a little kid my mother told me not to stare into the sun. So once when I was six, I did. At first the brightness was overwhelming, but I had seen that before. I kept looking, forcing myself not to blink, and then the brightness began to dissolve. My pupils shrunk to pinholes and everything came into focus and for a moment I understood. The doctors didn't know if my eyes would ever heal."
    -Pi


  11. #26
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    Yeah. I've tried putting people on ignore and then have taken them off.

    You two could always reconcile, too, ya know. It's not impossible. I've done it with several members, even G L Wilson, and you know that's quite a feat. Hell, my first exchange with stlukes was rife with conflict.

  12. #27
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis View Post
    Yeah. I've tried putting people on ignore and then have taken them off.

    You two could always reconcile, too, ya know. It's not impossible. I've done it with several members, even G L Wilson, and you know that's quite a feat. Hell, my first exchange with stlukes was rife with conflict.
    Even Mutatis and I are getting along quite well. But of course, it takes two to have civil discourse.
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

  13. #28
    Registered User Delta40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf View Post
    That would mean that you're being forced out of a discussion in which you want to participate. That is weakness.
    That is certainly one way to look at it. If you think stepping out of a discussion after getting personal insults thrown at you, thereby maintaining not only your dignity but preserving your position is weak then so be it. I'm not prepared to lower my standards just so my point of view can be heard. You gave a scenario limited to forum discussion but this is a principle on a much broader scale. If you were at a social gathering, would you allow yourself to be insulted over and over again during the course of a debate for no other reason than to feel like you had scored one over the other person?
    The Rotten Apple Injures its Neighbour

  14. #29
    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
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    I have left debates that have turned too heated... not because I am unable to engage in such... I have frequented un-moderated sites in the past that were absolutely brutal... and profanity and cheap shots soon lost all their impact while it was wit, humor, and logical argument that commonly won the day. Having the last word doesn't mean you've won the debate. I have stuck with other debates, not because I thought there was any possibility of changing my opponent's mind, but rather because I felt the issue was important enough that an alternative view point was needed. I think especially of the recent debate concerning Hitler where several of us refused to give in to apologists making excuses for the murder of untold millions.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC View Post
    Even Mutatis and I are getting along quite well. But of course, it takes two to have civil discourse.
    Word.

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