Mein Kampf

[Emil Miller]

Your professor's quote, which you grovel before as an authority: that too is a rubbish quote, with his greatest figure nonsense. Greatness and notoriety are miles apart. And 'repays serious study'. Your beloved professor is using his authority to intimidate laymen with heavy-going language. God knows how badly he writes as well, as few are born to write, and they write with sunshine and lollipops, like all healthy people. You, Hitler, and that professor, and many more like you, are mired in uninsightful, dense terminology. Talentless. Not ture insight. Mere sticks and stones to break bones.

You're not related to Cafolini by any chance?

[nancybella]

Alex, for you to think you can just drop a list of 'literary geniuses' and that's that. It makes one think you've a puerile grasp of the acuity of other people's independent observations. A philistine sweep of the pen with your literary geniuses and there we go, a subtle truth established. Go back to your books and start again. And stay off those sweeping phrases which express zero intelligence or originality.

One of your favourite writers was a paedophile and a misogynist - really, that remark says all I need to know and it's stupid of me to argue with you further. To say that and think you haven't utterly compromised your judgement to the listener. That is so telling. You must think people have no sense of morality to think they'd listen to you say that and not be offended. You don't show healthy self-awareness saying that and thinking you won't be caught up on it.

You also said that that author was a promiscuous homsexual. That doesn't have to be a vice and is certainly not in the category of a misogynist or paedophile. That you lump in promiscuous homsexuality with those two other morally wrong attributes, that's another telling remark.

But as I say, this whole thread is wrong; a morally wrong thread and I'm speaking out against it. And the likes of Alex's comments, utterly impressionable. He'll listen to you. He doesn't know any better.

[Alexander III]

Alex, for you to think you can just drop a list of 'literary geniuses' and that's that.

You misunderstand me sir, but it is my fault. I assumed you would have extrapolated the obvious thought, which should have followed the reading of the the list, to wit; that if we start judging literature or any art form, based upon the morality of the author - we would not merely loose De Sade and Hitler, we would loose a lot more, we would loose a strong bulwark of beauty, that is an integral and a touching essence of our literary Cannon.

The misunderstanding was my fault, my young and green mind assumed too much, I generalized; I assumed my manner of thought would be akin to everymans thought and thus the extrapolation would be obvious. I should have known better than to assume wiser and more venerable men would have the same childish mental functions, as my little green mind.

It makes one think you've a puerile grasp of the acuity of other people's independent observations.

Indeed I came to the same conclusion myself. I failed to realize that because I think in one way, it does not necessarily mean it is the right way. I ought to question my beliefs more thoroughly and never enter a discussion with a fixed and unchangeable viewpoint. While mountains may be impressive, it was from clay that we built civilization.

A philistine sweep of the pen with your literary geniuses and there we go, a subtle truth established.

Yes you are right, philistines sweep - they don't tumble, nor do they gently gesture, they sweep!

Go back to your books and start again.

Thank you for such a compliment. As all wise men know that failure and restarting are the traits not of the weak but the great.

And stay off those sweeping phrases which express zero intelligence or originality.

Ahh why did I sweep! If only I had signaled through the wink of an eye I could have turned the caricature that I am into a real boy! Alas I am a doomed Pinocchio with no Jimmy Cricket. I accidentally ate him.


Also while many men on these forums have called me: ineffectual, a philistine, lacking in intelligence and character, lacking in imagination, being naive, and also being unpleasant. They usually only do so after having known me for a few weeks. Considering that this is the first discussion we are having. I (forgive me for the blasphemous word which shall appear after the end of the parenthesis) Assume that we have already met, maybe you are cafolini, but your writing style seemed familiar, as the sudden urge to parody it thrilled me - I forget your name, as there have been a great deal of similar gentlemen to you this year whom I have argued with on the forums, so pardon me for not remembering your name, but then again tis a rare specimen of man, who can recall all the whores he has ****ed.

[nancybella]

Alexander, though I disagree with you, I'm sorry for being insulting. Disgraceful behaviour on my part.

[Emil Miller]

- really, that remark says all I need to know and it's stupid of me to argue with you further.

Well I won't say that I'm sorry, anyone who introduces sunshine and lollipops into a discussion on Mein Kampf isn't likely to add anything meaningful to the proceedings.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Nancy, you need to chill out, unless you want to get banned (again, I have a sneaking suspicion).

[nancybella]

Banned and sneaking suspicions?? This thread gets weirder.

[Freudian Monkey]

Personally I'd be more interested to read Hitler's letters or his diary than Mein Kampf, although it can also shed some light on the zeitgeist. I recently read Gustaf Mannerheim's personal letter exchange with his family and I have to say that those letter gave me a whole new and insightful perspective of Mannerheim, who has become almost a mythic figure in Finland.

Are there any published works regarding Hitler's diaries or letters?

[Emil Miller]

Personally I'd be more interested to read Hitler's letters or his diary than Mein Kampf, although it can also shed some light on the zeitgeist. I recently read Gustaf Mannerheim's personal letter exchange with his family and I have to say that those letter gave me a whole new and insightful perspective of Mannerheim, who has become almost a mythic figure in Finland.

Are there any published works regarding Hitler's diaries or letters?

There isn't any evidence that Hitler kept a diary but in 1983, the British historian Prof. Hugh Trevor-Roper came into possession of some exercise books that he claimed to be Hitler's diary. It caused a sensation at the time but they were later discovered to be forgeries. The nearest thing to what you are looking for would be be a book called Hitler's Table Talk in which, from 1941-1944, he allowed Martin Bormann to record his personal recollections for publication after the war.
These should be treated with caution but I have just read an extract from the book and it corresponds closely with Hitler's thoughts on Jews as expressed in Mein Kampf.

[Alexander III]

[Freudian Monkey]

There isn't any evidence that Hitler kept a diary but in 1983, the British historian Prof. Hugh Trevor-Roper came into possession of some exercise books that he claimed to be Hitler's diary. It caused a sensation at the time but they were later discovered to be forgeries. The nearest thing to what you are looking for would be be a book called Hitler's Table Talk in which, from 1941-1944, he allowed Martin Bormann to record his personal recollections for publication after the war.
These should be treated with caution but I have just read an extract from the book and it corresponds closely with Hitler's thoughts on Jews as expressed in Mein Kampf.

That's unfortunate. I would have liked to read something other than he's propaganda speeches and other highly rhetorical material.

Hitler surely wasn't alone with his thoughts on Jews - it was a different time back then. Antisemitism has been around since the birth of Christianity. Many popes as well as Martin Luther were anti-Semites. It's only natural to feel suspicion toward a minority that has no homeland. The very function of culture is to create social cohesion by separating a group of people from other people and to demonize the otherness that is left outside. There is always going to be such demonized minorities - maybe Arabs as a stereotype, Hamas and Iran can work as contemporary examples of this.

[Emil Miller]

That's unfortunate. I would have liked to read something other than he's propaganda speeches and other highly rhetorical material.

Hitler surely wasn't alone with his thoughts on Jews - it was a different time back then. Antisemitism has been around since the birth of Christianity. Many popes as well as Martin Luther were anti-Semites. It's only natural to feel suspicion toward a minority that has no homeland. The very function of culture is to create social cohesion by separating a group of people from other people and to demonize the otherness that is left outside. There is always going to be such demonized minorities - maybe Arabs as a stereotype, Hamas and Iran can work as contemporary examples of this.

It's true that Hitler made no secret about his hatred of Jews but I don't think it's his most interesting characteristic, the extract I referred to was a facsimile of the original German and just happened to be about Jews. In my view Hitler's geopolitical ambitions are far more interesting than his racial theories when viewed within the context of German history. Like Caesar and Napoleon Bonaparte before him, he is a figure of major historical importance who is the major reference point of the 20th century.

[Freudian Monkey]

It's true that Hitler made no secret about his hatred of Jews but I don't think it's his most interesting characteristic, the extract I referred to was a facsimile of the original German and just happened to be about Jews. In my view Hitler's geopolitical ambitions are far more interesting than his racial theories when viewed within the context of German history. Like Caesar and Napoleon Bonaparte before him, he is a figure of major historical importance who is the major reference point of the 20th century.

Agreed, although the cultural roots of Nazi ideology are pretty interesting as well.

[Emil Miller]

Agreed, although the cultural roots of Nazi ideology are pretty interesting as well.

Indeed, and that's why Mein Kampf is positive reading for serious students of the subject because in it Hitler outlines the thinking behind his personal beliefs. These included the settlement of Germans on Russian soil and the idea that might is right in which Frederick the Great was, in Hitler's mind, the embodiment.
I don't think it's possible to understand the full scope of Nazi ideology without reading Mein Kampf. I thought that I knew a good deal about him before reading it but it had usually been through the, not always balanced, views of others. The extra insight into his psychological makeup is what has kept the book in constant reprint since it was allowed back into the mainstream.

[Freudian Monkey]

Indeed, and that's why Mein Kampf is positive reading for serious students of the subject because in it Hitler outlines the thinking behind his personal beliefs. These included the settlement of Germans on Russian soil and the idea that might is right in which Frederick the Great was, in Hitler's mind, the embodiment.
I don't think it's possible to understand the full scope of Nazi ideology without reading Mein Kampf. I thought that I knew a good deal about him before reading it but it had usually been through the, not always balanced, views of others. The extra insight into his psychological makeup is what has kept the book in constant reprint since it was allowed back into the mainstream.

A documentary called The Century of The Self by Adam Curtis can provide another perspective on the rise of totalitarianism in Europe. To fully understand the development an ideology one needs more than just an understanding of political history.