View Poll Results: Nabokov's Lolita

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  • *** Finished but no reason to skip meals.

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  • **** Don't forget to unplug the phone for this one!

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  • ***** A bookworm's bibliophilic dream!

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Thread: that bombshell of a book, Nabokov's Lolita

  1. #31
    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
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    I am afraid I have to completely disagree

    How can you disagree as what the book is about when you haven't bothered to read it? Any opinion you may have considering is wholly without value.

    for someone to be so knowledgable about lust and peodophilia with children that age and in a literary sesne one needs to have thought, experienced or felt them in one way or another in order to be so eloquent about such subject. No smoke without fire or thereabouts.

    That's certainly one of the dumbest comments I've read here in quite a while... and that takes some doing. You clearly haven't the least idea about what goes into the creation of a work of art or creativity. Art is laden with narratives and images addressing subjects ranging from rape to murder to torture to nearly any horrific subject you can think of. Those with a certain degree of maturity recognize that the artist and the artwork are two distinct things. Not every work of art that addresses a subject matter that makes us uncomfortable is an expression of the subconscious desires of the artist. Had you actually read Lolita you might have recognized just how Nabokov employs Humbert as an unreliable narrator... someone not to be trusted. But again, your opinions are based upon nothing more than hearsay and presumption.
    Last edited by stlukesguild; 04-25-2012 at 10:19 PM.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    I am afraid I have to completely disagree

    How can you disagree as what the book is about when you haven't bothered to read the book? Any opinion you may have considering is wholly without value.

    for someone to be so knowledgable about lust and peodophilia with children that age and in a literary sesne one needs to have thought, experienced or felt them in one way or another in order to be so eloquent about such subject. No smoke without fire or thereabouts.

    That's certainly one of the dumbest comments I've read here in quite a while... and that takes some doing. You clearly haven't the least idea about what goes into the creation of a work of art or creativity. Art is laden with narratives and images addressing subjects ranging from rape to murder to torture to nearly any horrific subject you can think of. Those with a certain degree of maturity recognize that the artist and the artwork are two distinct things. Not every work of art that addresses a subject matter that makes us uncomfortable is an expression of the subconscious desires of the artist. Had you actually read Lolita you might have recognized just how Nabokov employs Humbert as an unreliable narrator... someone not to be trusted. But again, your opinions are based upon nothing more than hearsay and presumption.
    No, no, no, StLukes, she read a few pages--surely enough for her to conclude that Nabokov was a pedophile.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi View Post
    No, no, no, StLukes, she read a few pages--surely enough for her to conclude that Nabokov was a pedophile.
    trololololol

    My understanding of this book is honestly most likely too superficial to warrant comment. I need to reread this book as an adult, probably, to fully understand it, especially the disillusioned post-modern atmosphere. I'm too idealistic as a teen. XD
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  4. #34
    Spring Goddess Easter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    I am afraid I have to completely disagree, for someone to be so knowledgable about lust and peodophilia with children that age and in a literary sesne one needs to have thought, experienced or felt them in one way or another in order to be so eloquent about such subject. No smoke without fire or thereabouts.
    So.. by that logic, people can only write about what they know/feel/have experience with themselves? So... I guess fantasy or science fiction doesn't really exist? Or historical fiction, because the authors couldn't have lived through that history themselves?

    I think it's a little nearsighted to assume that because an author writes about a man who loves a 13 year old girl the author himself must have felt such things.
    "But she expressed herself in many different ways, until she lost control again..."

  5. #35
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    =Easter;1135467]So.. by that logic, people can only write about what they know/feel/have experience with themselves? So... I guess fantasy or science fiction doesn't really exist? Or historical fiction, because the authors couldn't have lived through that history themselves?
    Hi Easter when it comes down to writing about fantasy then that is just imagination of the mind because it is easier to imagine things that don't exist then things that do.
    I can easily imagine new characters based on what I already know from children's books and fairy tales stories and then build on from it. Imagination is key when it comes to creationism at this level.
    That is how I understand it.

    I think it's a little nearsighted to assume that because an author writes about a man who loves a 13 year old girl the author himself must have felt such things.
    [/QUOTE]
    When it comes to intimacy and feelings then it is slightely different one can express a sentiment, an emotions or a desire perfectly because onehas lived felt or feels that way.
    Feelings are personal and so is lust. I could not write about sexual desires that are different from mine such as the case of lolita because I have the faintest idea how to go about because I have not the experience of it. I can howevber write eloquently about my deep desires if I wanted to and succed at it because I know how it feels.
    That is how I perceive things and of course you are to disagree with me and that is perfectly acceptable to me because you and I are different.
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  6. #36
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi View Post
    No, no, no, StLukes, she read a few pages--surely enough for her to conclude that Nabokov was a pedophile.
    well how long does it take to realise the book is not for you?
    I usually make my mind up by looking at few things
    Title/Summary/first few pages/style of writing and last but not least and most importanly the topic.
    If the story is going to be build about a child and an adult in adult theme I won't look at it.
    For example I would not read sci-fi books because I am not interested in them.
    I am quick at making my mind up at selecting which books are of interest to me which saves me money when I go to a bookshop. Thank god I do not have to read the whole thing to decide I did not like it.

    One question I have which is perfectly on topic and it is this:

    who is to know that Gary Glitter and Roman Polanski did not read the book and felt tempted by it and so went and did it? After we are only human if a book that deals with such contreversial situation is publically accepted as one the best ever to be written who is to say its impact had a total opposite effect on certain people because people are different. Different people react differently a one same thing ?
    There always tow sides to a story isn't there?
    This is a perfectly plausible scenario and makes a perfectly valid point.

    Anyway I won't go on about this subject because I am not after an argument but just to put a point across.
    I hope you do appreciate that views and opinions are always going to be varied and different and that is healthy as far as I am concerned.
    Last edited by cacian; 04-26-2012 at 02:29 PM.
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  7. #37
    Spring Goddess Easter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    Hi Easter when it comes down to writing about fantasy then that is just imagination of the mind because it is easier to imagine things that don't exist then things that do.
    I can easily imagine new characters based on what I already know from children's books and fairy tales stories and then build on from it. Imagination is key when it comes to creationism at this level.
    That is how I understand it.

    When it comes to intimacy and feelings then it is slightely different one can express a sentiment, an emotions or a desire perfectly because onehas lived felt or feels that way.
    Feelings are personal and so is lust. I could not write about sexual desires that are different from mine such as the case of lolita because I have the faintest idea how to go about because I have not the experience of it. I can howevber write eloquently about my deep desires if I wanted to and succed at it because I know how it feels.
    That is how I perceive things and of course you are to disagree with me and that is perfectly acceptable to me because you and I are different.
    Well, I DO disagree with you... just because YOU could not write about something without having felt it, doesn't mean that others can't. As to the notion that it's easier to write about something that doesn't exist... I'm not sure I agree with you there. I think it's a HUGE challenge to create an entire world or country or series of events based around rules that aren't applicable in our own world.

    Also, I do think we need to clarify exactly what Nabokov is writing about... It isn't just that Humbert Humbert gets a sexual charge from underage girls... he falls in love with them. And it's an all-encompasing, obsessive love. So really Nabokov is NOT writing about some taboo desire.. he's writing about obsessive love, which is a universal subject. The object of is affection may be taboo, but his feelings are not.

    well how long does it take to realise the book is not for you?
    I usually make my mind up by looking at few things
    Title/Summary/first few pages/style of writing and last but not least and most importanly the topic.
    If the story is going to be build about a child and an adult in adult theme I won't look at it.
    For example I would not read sci-fi books because I am not interested in them.
    I am quick at making my mind up at selecting which books are of interest to me which saves me money when I go to a bookshop. Thank god I do not have to read the whole thing to decide I did not like it.
    I also think you're missing the point they were trying to make here... it's not whether or not the book is for you.... if you don't like the book, that's fine! You're entitled not to! But the point is that you haven't read it, you have no intention of reading it (because it's 'not for you') and yet you have no problem commenting on the topic and the content and the author's intention. How can you really make an informed judgment without having read it? I wouldn't comment on a thread about, Atlas Shrugged, for example, because I haven't read it... despite what I may have heard about it or whether or not I think it's a book that's "for me"... I wouldn't comment because I don't feel like I know enough about it to make informed comments...
    Last edited by Easter; 04-26-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    well how long does it take to realise the book is not for you?
    I usually make my mind up by looking at few things
    Title/Summary/first few pages/style of writing and last but not least and most importanly the topic.
    If the story is going to be build about a child and an adult in adult theme I won't look at it.
    For example I would not read sci-fi books because I am not interested in them.
    I am quick at making my mind up at selecting which books are of interest to me which saves me money when I go to a bookshop. Thank god I do not have to read the whole thing to decide I did not like it.

    One question I have which is perfectly on topic and it is this:

    who is to know that Gary Glitter and Stanley Kubrick did not read the book and felt tempted by it and so went and did it? After we are only human if a book that deals with such contreversial situation is publically accepted as one the best ever to be written who is to say its impact had a total opposite effect on certain people because people are different. Different people react differently a one same thing ?
    There always tow sides to a story isn't there?
    This is a perfectly plausible scenario and makes a perfectly valid point.
    I don't understand your question.

  9. #39
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi View Post
    I don't understand your question.
    What I am trying to say that lots of books shape our inspirations motivations and ultimately our styles and attitudes because that is the power of literature.
    Lots of great writers and authors are influenced by other writers before and so lots of style of writing and ideals come throught one's writing.
    The question I am asking is this:
    do you think by reading Lolita some people not all, would interpret the book differently from you and I?
    I gave you an example of Polanski to illustrate what I am trying to say and that is:
    Is there a possibility somewhere that an offender or polanski for example would have committed child abuse because the negative influence the book had on them?
    After there is always two side to a story .
    Last edited by cacian; 04-26-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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  10. #40
    Registered User Dark Star's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    who is to know that Gary Glitter and Stanley Kubrick did not read the book and felt tempted by it and so went and did it?
    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that Kubrick is a pedophile? If so, what evidence do you have?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    What I am trying to say that lots of books shape our inspirations motivations and ultimately our styles and attitudes because that is the power of literature.
    Lots of great writers and authors are influenced by other writers before and so lots of style of writing and ideals come throught one's writing.
    The question I am asking is this:
    do you think by reading Lolita some people not all, would interpret the book differently from you and I?
    I gave you an example of Kubrick to illustrate what I am trying to say and that is:
    Is there a possibility somewhere that an offender or kubrick for example would have committed child abuse because the negative influence the book had on them?
    After there is always two side to a story .
    Anyone who commits a crime like child abuse is going to have deeper issues than being influenced by one single piece of art. That's like saying video games are the sole reason a kids goes on a shooting spree. It's ridiculous.

    There will always be different interpretations of a book, and some of those interpretations will be bad, such as interpreting Lolita as promoting pedophilia. An author, or a work, can hardly be faulted for stupid people misunderstanding it. The man who killed John Lennon was obsessed and claimed inspiration from The Catcher in the Rye. Should we assign blame to that book or J.D. Salinger? No. Same goes for Lolita.

  12. #42
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Star View Post
    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but are you suggesting that Kubrick is a pedophile? If so, what evidence do you have?
    Oops sorry I beg your pardon..totally my fault...it was Polanski.
    I always confuse the two.
    I better go and change it...apologies.
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  13. #43
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi View Post
    Anyone who commits a crime like child abuse is going to have deeper issues than being influenced by one single piece of art. That's like saying video games are the sole reason a kids goes on a shooting spree. It's ridiculous.
    Well that is one perfect possibility. Some people would act on impulse and because they have seen it or read about it.
    Take glossy magazines for example, they are a huge business because they sell fashion like tap water. Many young people buy these magazines to look at the lastest look/style/model because they want to be the same. That is what magazines do and are to sell an image a picture an ideal that is not attainable. How is that different from a story that deals with child abuse issues?

    There will always be different interpretations of a book, and some of those interpretations will be bad, such as interpreting Lolita as promoting pedophilia. An author, or a work, can hardly be faulted for stupid people misunderstanding it. The man who killed John Lennon was obsessed and claimed inspiration from The Catcher in the Rye. Should we assign blame to that book or J.D. Salinger? No. Same goes for Lolita.
    Well why don't you want to believe the killer? You heard it from the horse's mouth. I believe what this person said that he was inspired by the book because he admitted it.
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  14. #44
    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
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    I could not write about sexual desires that are different from mine such as the case of lolita because I have the faintest idea how to go about because I have not the experience of it.

    That does not mean that others cannot.
    Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
    The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
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  15. #45
    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
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    What I am trying to say that lots of books shape our inspirations motivations and ultimately our styles and attitudes because that is the power of literature.
    Lots of great writers and authors are influenced by other writers before and so lots of style of writing and ideals come throught one's writing.
    The question I am asking is this:
    do you think by reading Lolita some people not all, would interpret the book differently from you and I?
    I gave you an example of Polanski to illustrate what I am trying to say and that is:
    Is there a possibility somewhere that an offender or polanski for example would have committed child abuse because the negative influence the book had on them?
    After there is always two side to a story .


    So obviously we should banish the Bible and the Qur'an. Far more criminal acts, acts of the most atrocious and unspeakable tortures, and wholesale murders have been committed by those inspired by these books than by a thousand Lolitas.
    Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
    The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
    My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
    http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/

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