and are depressing books justified?
and are depressing books justified?
it may never try
but when it does it sigh
it is just that
good
it fly
I don't remember it too much but 1984. Even for my English teacher who has us read books similar to that such as Fahrenheit 451 and Brave New World she said that she was physically too depressed to finish it
Tess of the D'Urdbervilles.
As for justified? I'm not sure what you mean. Books are written for an audience. Their patronage of the author justifies it - even Tess.
For me the beautifull and the damned is the most depressing book I have ever read. Gatsby and Tender is the Night are very melancholic, but B&D is downright depressing and maudlin.
Hi PaulclemOriginally Posted by Paulclem
what I mean by justified is what is it that depressive books add to the enlightment of the mind.
I consider literature as journey that leads to enlightment and fulfillement and pleasures.
How does depression helps anyone adjust to a journey to only find one depressed at the end of it.
it may never try
but when it does it sigh
it is just that
good
it fly
You must pick up one or the other
Though neither of them are to be what they claim.
Hi Cacian,
I wonder about your use of the word depressive. Isn't that used to describe people as in a depressive state? Whereas depressing can be applied to anything.
Despite my dislike of the book Tess of the D'Urbevilles, it is a powerful character study. I don't like it because Hardy seems to be harsh with her - there's no let up in her predicament, and she's a victim type. I would hesitate to suggest that it, or any book, could induce actual depression though.
I consider literature as journey that leads to enlightment and fulfillement and pleasures.
That may be your own aim, but are the aims in some literature any different? Doesn't Shelley tell the story of Frankenstein's monster in an enlightening way? You might still describe the book as fulfilling in that it complete the authors aims and conveys them entertainingly to the reader.
The same goes for many books in that they deal in a thouhtful way with pretty depressing subjects such as prison camps, war, death, estranged love, murder etc etc. What people find in them differs, but the clarity of the writing and the depth of the material is what makes them worthwhile reading.
why should I?
A pleasure can be both an enlightement and a fulfillement.
it may never try
but when it does it sigh
it is just that
good
it fly
I might agree, but in general you can't expect enlightment to be pleasing, or pleasure to be fulfilling, etc. Kafka, Dostoyevsky, Camus, Sartre, Mishima, Beckett... all of them wrote highly depressing works in which even partially positive resolutions are rare.
Oh well that is a matter of opinion and entirely subjective.
My pleasures derive from fulfillement and enlightment is one of them.
That is not to say that I do not derive pleasures from other sources.
The more I learn about something 'positive' that shed lights on my wonders the more delighted my person becomes.
I must first fullfill my intellectual pleasures in order to fullfil other more pleasants adventures and be in control.
it may never try
but when it does it sigh
it is just that
good
it fly
Were you expecting objective answers to any of this?
All I mean is that textbook all-out depressing (whatever we can mean by it other than a medical expression) stories like "The Trial" or "L'Étranger", are at the same time as good an experience as you can get. So my personal opinion is that yes, depressing books are justified.
That's interesting. I think Scheherazade dislikes it or Hardy in general for similar reasons if I remember rightly. Personally I don't have a problem with it at all because I think it works, but I can see the point, however don't most authors manipulate readers to some degree anyway? I think I would rather have a harsh reality here in Tess, over a neat 'Hollywood ending' I don't know, it is an interesting point. If Hardy does this in Tess though then it is nearly nothing compared to Jude the Obscure!!Despite my dislike of the book Tess of the D'Urbevilles, it is a powerful character study. I don't like it because Hardy seems to be harsh with her - there's no let up in her predicament, and she's a victim type...
Last edited by LitNetIsGreat; 03-12-2012 at 05:04 PM.
I completely agree. Keeping with Kafka, The Metamorphosis was one of the most "depressing" (I'm not getting into a semantic debate over this one - I'll leave it to the more qualified linguists) books I've read, and I think because of the level of emotion I experienced while reading it, it will always rank in my favorites.
Obviously every reader has a different impetus for reading, and so justification can't really be spoken about in universal terms. It's a bit of a futile question really.
Alyson of Bathe's feeble attempt at completing the 1001 books challenge. You would think a former English major would have a better start than this. For the Reading.
If I had to pick one book as the most depressing, I agree with you on Metamorphosis
I wrote a poem on a leaf and it blew away...
I wouldn't advocate a Hollywood ending either - Tess leaps up, punches him in the chops and goes off with one of the cowherders to a happy life.
It's a long while since I read it, but my memory of it is the relentlessness of her trials which she doesn't try to escape. I got the impression that she was complicit in her own fall - doubly damned.
I know that the art of writing is to manipulate the reader, and that it's pointless to rail at Hardy. I think the differences in attitude are probably responsible for the irritation I felt on reading it.
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