Lady Chatterley's Lover

[ftil]

Lovemaking becomes passionate and full of life when we involve ourselves in the act and do not dragged away by second thought. Man and woman could be real enjoyers had they not been hardwired to think uncooperatively. They had cultures, taboos, mores and the like impeding, in fact crippling them and all these heaps of "what others said", what others will say" or "what if others know this" and the like. This is ridiculous and we live by certain myths and do not get directed by our natural instincts. And when man and of course woman too are in this state, a very depressing state they take refuge in sex and this can go to the limit of 24 / 7 making love. The juice that is generated will dry up and the act of sex then becomes an robotic act, man over woman and vice versa and at the end of the day what remains of them is hatred, doubt, erratic nauseas and one makes hell out of all these affairs. We are capable of loving and being loved if we do not become so much skeptical of each other. Every man has something to dip in the ocean of love in every woman. The swimmer and the swum must be in perfect unison. Count out your prejudices, religions and teachings and live the way you want, the way the eagle flies defying the eternity that seems to delimit his impetus. Let us learn to trust for today the one and only panacea is love and trust. Today the spring that manufactures generosity, love, understanding, empathy in our heart has dried up and we have a penchant for looking at things through a rational lens, a rational lens is opaque and we cannot see beauty thorough this since this lens is made of only intellect and doubt and thought.

I wish it were that easy. Well, I don’t believe in any shortcut. I did and I spent a considerable time to look for a shortcut…….without any success. Religion or spiritual teachings don’t have the same impact upon us as it had 100 years ago. We have sexual freedom, yet most people don’t have fulfilling relationships. You put too much emphasis on sex but the most passionate experience will be gone fast if people are not mature. By maturity I mean that people don’t build codependent relationships and spend their time to control each other or use all energy to mange anxiety in relationships. Second, people need to get their bodies back and feel all feelings. They need to know themselves and to have the ability to communicate their needs and feelings. I don’t want to sound sexist, but unfortunately, most men don’t have any clue how to express their feelings. They were programmed to be macho man without showing vulnerability. As a result of programming, many men are emotionally numb. It is a huge barrier as to understand another human being, we have to understand them on emotional level that is we need to feel their feelings. It is not true that men are not capable of achieving high level of emotional awareness or developing a six sense to intuit others feelings. My best teachers into the realm of emotional awareness were men. Love and passion is gone if people don’t understand each other. The name of the game is personal growth, and unfortunately as research has shown, many men refuse to undergo that painful process. Finally, many men don’t have listening skills at all. They think that they do……but they are busy to hear themselves. Then they are surprised that the partner become cold.

[osho]

I wish it were that easy. Well, I don’t believe in any shortcut. I did and I spent a considerable time to look for a shortcut…….without any success. Religion or spiritual teachings don’t have the same impact upon us as it had 100 years ago. We have sexual freedom, yet most people don’t have fulfilling relationships. You put too much emphasis on sex but the most passionate experience will be gone fast if people are not mature. By maturity I mean that people don’t build codependent relationships and spend their time to control each other or use all energy to mange anxiety in relationships. Second, people need to get their bodies back and feel all feelings. They need to know themselves and to have the ability to communicate their needs and feelings. I don’t want to sound sexist, but unfortunately, most men don’t have any clue how to express their feelings. They were programmed to be macho man without showing vulnerability. As a result of programming, many men are emotionally numb. It is a huge barrier as to understand another human being, we have to understand them on emotional level that is we need to feel their feelings. It is not true that men are not capable of achieving high level of emotional awareness or developing a six sense to intuit others feelings. My best teachers into the realm of emotional awareness were men. Love and passion is gone if people don’t understand each other. The name of the game is personal growth, and unfortunately as research has shown, many men refuse to undergo that painful process. Finally, many men don’t have listening skills at all. They think that they do……but they are busy to hear themselves. Then they are surprised that the partner become cold.

I second your thought that there is no shortcut to relationship building and this is not a tradeoff and it is something of the heart, of the feeling that goes beyond a blueprint. It happens and we often flow with it. I do not believe it happens only through efforts and though we cannot dispose of efforts, but it has more to do with our emotional mind. A man and of course woman too without emotion or passion driven only by their intelligence do not pair off appropriately in relationships and as you said the partner becomes cold once the flair for passion or sexual stimulation is exhausted. That is why most men after acts of sex shrink back whereas women want the more intimate relationship after the act. Sex is something man wants to satiate his sudden shakes, a kind of spasm that happens with his genitals and its concentration is there more in his case and in woman' s case it is all over her body and that is why they want more caressing and kissing prior to lovemaking to reach a state of climax.

I do not hate humans no matter what sexes they come of and in fact some men and of course women too tend to behave differently and they may stand at odd with our particular choices or bends of minds but it does not mean they are really mean and base. Sometimes their societies or the values they have inherited from their parents or friends become some decisive factors and more often than not they fail to overcome those influences and despite their freewill they fall victims to their circumstances.

I always want to look at humans through an unblemished lens and study them when they are not under a particular sway of thoughts or influences but I know it is rare and all our thoughts and communications are bits and pieces of what we have experienced or garnered from others and as long as our thoughts revolve around this periphery we cannot understand each other.

[ftil]

I second your thought that there is no shortcut to relationship building and this is not a tradeoff and it is something of the heart, of the feeling that goes beyond a blueprint. It happens and we often flow with it. I do not believe it happens only through efforts and though we cannot dispose of efforts, but it has more to do with our emotional mind. A man and of course woman too without emotion or passion driven only by their intelligence do not pair off appropriately in relationships and as you said the partner becomes cold once the flair for passion or sexual stimulation is exhausted. That is why most men after acts of sex shrink back whereas women want the more intimate relationship after the act. Sex is something man wants to satiate his sudden shakes, a kind of spasm that happens with his genitals and its concentration is there more in his case and in woman' s case it is all over her body and that is why they want more caressing and kissing prior to lovemaking to reach a state of climax.

I do not hate humans no matter what sexes they come of and in fact some men and of course women too tend to behave differently and they may stand at odd with our particular choices or bends of minds but it does not mean they are really mean and base. Sometimes their societies or the values they have inherited from their parents or friends become some decisive factors and more often than not they fail to overcome those influences and despite their freewill they fall victims to their circumstances.

I always want to look at humans through an unblemished lens and study them when they are not under a particular sway of thoughts or influences but I know it is rare and all our thoughts and communications are bits and pieces of what we have experienced or garnered from others and as long as our thoughts revolve around this periphery we cannot understand each other.

Hehehe…….Osho you scrupulously avoided to respond to the issues I have addressed. My friend, you are fooling yourself thinking that you know what women want. If you want to know….you need to ask and listen.

You are making a mistake I emphasized in my previous post. You focus too much on the act of love making. You need to ask why women lose interest and become cold. Haven’t you heard many jokes about women getting a migraine…….....just before they go to bed? Think about that and we may stop walking in the circle.

I hope that you didn’t get from my post that I hate men. They are too cute ….to hate them but to love them. Being honest has nothing to do with hatred. I am aware of issues that women have that result from programming. We are not free from it either but women are more courageous to grow and to challenge negative programming.

[Paulclem]

I knew that you are going to show up here. You don’t contemplate your idea in meditation. The purpose is to empty one’s mind. Some people sit quietly while others do chant but the result is the same. Empty mind. Bronte Baxter’s spent 17 years studying and practicing Maharishi and I couldn’t say it better.

Hi ftil. I did respond but I've edited my comment out. I feel I wasn't responding in the right spirit butting into your converstion with Osho, and so I withdraw.

[ftil]

Hi ftil. I did respond but I've edited my comment out. I feel I wasn't responding in the right spirit butting into your converstion with Osho, and so I withdraw.

Oh, you are welcome to our discussion about relationships. Buddhism or meditation is not a part of it though.

[Paulclem]

Oh, you are welcome to our discussion about relationships. Buddhism or meditation is not a part of it though.

Thank you

[osho]

Hehehe…….Osho you scrupulously avoided to respond to the issues I have addressed. My friend, you are fooling yourself thinking that you know what women want. If you want to know….you need to ask and listen.

You are making a mistake I emphasized in my previous post. You focus too much on the act of love making. You need to ask why women lose interest and become cold. Haven’t you heard many jokes about women getting a migraine…….....just before they go to bed? Think about that and we may stop walking in the circle.

I hope that you didn’t get from my post that I hate men. They are too cute ….to hate them but to love them. Being honest has nothing to do with hatred. I am aware of issues that women have that result from programming. We are not free from it either but women are more courageous to grow and to challenge negative programming.

I am not scrupulously avoiding anything and why should I after all since you have not raised an issue that I feel uncomfortable to answer and I am not fooling myself into thinking the way you assume and you know me from what I write and that is a very little part of me. What is more, our writing cannot manifest what we are in person, physically and personally. I am somewhat liberal and as you know through our conversation I discuss any issue that comes our way and I do not pre-think how I must behave. I like Lawrence for his straightforwardness and I too choose to avert presenting myself in my double roles. I do present myself the way I am, not fabricating or layering what I feel and I am open inside out and maybe sometimes my prejudices , kind of leanings I may have to some country or culture specific things surface to what I say. I talk about sex, romance, love spontaneously as I feel not the way I am under somebody's or ideas' sway. Yes women outgrow negative programming, if they are bold enough but most are under the swing of what their parents have taught them. Parents too are not free of some bigotries and how can the child be free from such preconceptions to behave rationally?

[ftil]

I am not scrupulously avoiding anything and why should I after all since you have not raised an issue that I feel uncomfortable to answer and I am not fooling myself into thinking the way you assume and you know me from what I write and that is a very little part of me. What is more, our writing cannot manifest what we are in person, physically and personally. I am somewhat liberal and as you know through our conversation I discuss any issue that comes our way and I do not pre-think how I must behave. I like Lawrence for his straightforwardness and I too choose to avert presenting myself in my double roles. I do present myself the way I am, not fabricating or layering what I feel and I am open inside out and maybe sometimes my prejudices , kind of leanings I may have to some country or culture specific things surface to what I say. I talk about sex, romance, love spontaneously as I feel not the way I am under somebody's or ideas' sway. Yes women outgrow negative programming, if they are bold enough but most are under the swing of what their parents have taught them. Parents too are not free of some bigotries and how can the child be free from such preconceptions to behave rationally?

Happy New Year.

Hey, I don’t make any assumptions that I know you. There is a proverb that says,” To get to know another person, one need to eat a barrel of salt” It takes a long time to do so. I was taking about men in general that many men don’t have skills how to express their feelings as well as how to listen. Don’t be upset but I have noticed in our previous conversations that you spoke on behalf of women. You are not the only one, please don’t take it personally. But it is important as many women have voiced their concerns. BTW, M. Rosenberg has written a great book about communication, tilted “Nonviolent communication”. It is a really eye opening as it teaches how to listen and express feelings. Many relationships could avoid unnecessary pain if they had those skills.

I like your spontaneity and openness. Nothing else makes me losing interest as dishonesty and lack of spontaneity. I am not fond of robots ……no matter how eloquent they are.

It is true how parents can teach their children if they have never questioned and challenged their programming. Women are more courageous to outgrow programming than men and you can’t argue about that as vast research are available. In your opinion, how men can challenge their programming?

[osho]

Happy New Year.

Hey, I don’t make any assumptions that I know you. There is a proverb that says,” To get to know another person, one need to eat a barrel of salt” It takes a long time to do so. I was taking about men in general that many men don’t have skills how to express their feelings as well as how to listen. Don’t be upset but I have noticed in our previous conversations that you spoke on behalf of women. You are not the only one, please don’t take it personally. But it is important as many women have voiced their concerns. BTW, M. Rosenberg has written a great book about communication, tilted “Nonviolent communication”. It is a really eye opening as it teaches how to listen and express feelings. Many relationships could avoid unnecessary pain if they had those skills.

I like your spontaneity and openness. Nothing else makes me losing interest as dishonesty and lack of spontaneity. I am not fond of robots ……no matter how eloquent they are.

It is true how parents can teach their children if they have never questioned and challenged their programming. Women are more courageous to outgrow programming than men and you can’t argue about that as vast research are available. In your opinion, how men can challenge their programming?

Happy New Year to you too, my friend,

You have raised a question I always likes to discuss. I do not think men can challenge programming and it is in fact a very tough job. I do not think I have challenged it ever though I am a bit iconoclastic myself. I hate some of our much treasured values. I do not even believe in the institution of marriage since through it we have to cut the wings of imagination. Our civilization has limited or crippled us fencing off our flights, our impulses, our drives and our dreams and that is why people become depressed. One has to love and make love within certain boundaries. I am not advocating free sex. Sex is one of our most in fact the most suppressed urge and when one cannot fulfill it one remains depressed. Our social setups are delimiting factors. I have read a little about matrimonial society in which the female chooses the male to impregnate her or if any urge pops inside her. Since life comes from her she used to be a dominant figure. In due course man through his muscular prowess has dominance over her and thus started ruling. Even today we have a society and I have come across it wherein a woman is free to marry several men and they sleep under the same roof if not together in the same bed.

Yes Hinduism, Christianity or Islam or Buddhism have framed our rational faculties and we tend to behave in a particular way and all these religions have shaped the way we live in society. For instance Hinduism has empowered man and women were deemed lower of birth, the recent movement in India against one of the Sutras of the Bhagbad Gita in which men were considered lower or baser by birth. Even women were burned to death in the tradition of Sati and those who coming and spreading from that family tree tend to behave accordingly with man's supremacy over every family decision. The same is true of Islam in some countries wherein women are expected to be perfect virginally to the extent of having their hymens unbroken and whereas men were never questioned about their chastity. In fact I again may sound advocating women. Not at all. In fact all I am trying to say is there are so many holes in our cultural fabrics and social norms and standards and they had once upon a time been designed to make them suitable and convenient to a particular class of people. People had, still they do have a strong faith in scriptural texts for example the Ramayana and the Mahabharata have always been a treasure trove of Hindu cultures.

Having talked at somewhat length all I want to defy is our social institutions and following what we have been told to do has crippled ourselves and we murder our powerful vital urges and shrink back from doing what our heart wants or we do not listen to the powerful emotions, impulses or drives that vibrate inside us. Our conditioned mind censors them.

[ftil]

To be honest, I don’t believe in institution of marriage either considering the fact that only 1 % of couple who have been married for 25 years have deep intimacy. Really depressing statistics. You are saying that freeing impulses and drives is a remedy for relationships. I would argue that suppressing our impulses or drives cause depression. It is much more complex problem than that. For example, when married women are depressed it is not as a result of unfulfilled sex. Symptoms related to depression are seen as the outcome of socialization and overly rigid adherence to stereotyped feminine roles. Several studies found that “housewife” who lacked a certain level of intimacy in martial relationships were the most depressed group of women. Depression is also associated with imbalance in relationships and the risk for depression is 13 greater when marital discord accompanies social isolation. Finally, the prevalence of depression is higher for women than men. It is not about sex and drives at all.

Unless men open up to the idea that women have different needs and start listening and understanding, people will blame religion, upbringing, or culture. Yes, religions have played an important roles, shaping and giving moral codes. In ancient Greece or Rome, gods raped and abducted women. Zeus abducted and raped a boy. It is almost impossible to get to know all their sexual affairs. Different standards and moral codes than that of Christianity or Islam. We can also look how women were treated in Buddhism or Hindu. But religions are not responsible for all the problems. In fact, focusing our attention on religions takes us away from the more profound influences. Love and sex have been a tool of control and mass manipulation. I have been reading Giordano Bruno’s On Magic and A General Account of Bonding ( The De vinculis in genere). His concepts of “chains” through love and sex has been successfully used through centuries through art, music, poetry, or movies to manipulate and control us. I haven’t finished Bruno’s book and I need to read more to get a deeper understanding of the mechanism of magic in binding.

You may ask yourself from where your concept of relationships and its fulfillment comes? Does religion plays the important roles or books and movies or psychology that shapes your ideas what people should do to have fulfillment and satisfaction.

Second, everything may be fine with your theory when people are young but the problem with fulfillment starts when men reach dreadful forties. If sex is the only means of having satisfying relationships, it means that there is no single men on earth who can have a fulfilling and satisfying relationship after 40’s.... It is not true at all and 1% is lucky. It would be very depressing for men to think that way. I hope that you can take a serious look at your beliefs regarding relationships.

The timing of the capacity to be bound. In different seasons and ages, one and the same thing can be bonded in various ways, and different things are not related to one and the same bond in the same way. Nor are wholes always recomposed in the same way. From this we can point out that someone who was easy going and showy as a young man becomes a more stable and prudent adult, while an old man is more suspicious and morose, and a very old man is full of blame and loathing.

The number of things that can be bound. Thinking persons turn away from sensible things and are bound by divine things. Pleasure seekers descend through vision to the abundances of touching. Moralists are attracted by the amusement of conversation. The first are heroes, the second are natural, and the third are rational. The first are higher, the second lower, the third in between. The first are said to be worthy of the heavens, the second of life, the third of feeling. The first ascend to God, the second cling to bodies, the third move away from one extreme and approach the other.

The degrees of things that can be bound. Children are less bound by their natural feelings, because their nature is absorbed in growth and is disturbed by great changes, and all their nutrition is given over to growth and the structuring of the individual. But they clearly begin to be open to being bound in the fourteenth year, for even though at that age they are still involved in growth, their rate of growth is not as fast and as great as when they were children. And in the stable period of adulthood, men have a greater strength in their semen and, as a result, seem to be more subject to being bound. Furthermore, adolescents and young men seem to be more sexually excited for the reason that they are on fire for a long time because of the novelty of this pleasure; because the passages through which the semen passes are narrower, the wetness gushes forth with a more delightful pleasure. And as a result of the sexual itch which arises from this pressure, they are more delighted and liberated. But bonds are more difficult in older men, whose powers are half dead, whose organs and passages are spent, and whose semen is not abundant. Precisely the same thing is found proportionally in the other emotions which have an analogy or contrast or dependence on the passion of love.
Excerpt from Cause, Principle, and Unity. An Essay on Magic. Gordano Bruno

[osho]

To be honest, I don’t believe in institution of marriage either considering the fact that only 1 % of couple who have been married for 25 years have deep intimacy. Really depressing statistics. You are saying that freeing impulses and drives is a remedy for relationships. I would argue that suppressing our impulses or drives cause depression. It is much more complex problem than that. For example, when married women are depressed it is not as a result of unfulfilled sex. Symptoms related to depression are seen as the outcome of socialization and overly rigid adherence to stereotyped feminine roles. Several studies found that “housewife” who lacked a certain level of intimacy in martial relationships were the most depressed group of women. Depression is also associated with imbalance in relationships and the risk for depression is 13 greater when marital discord accompanies social isolation. Finally, the prevalence of depression is higher for women than men. It is not about sex and drives at all.

Unless men open up to the idea that women have different needs and start listening and understanding, people will blame religion, upbringing, or culture. Yes, religions have played an important roles, shaping and giving moral codes. In ancient Greece or Rome, gods raped and abducted women. Zeus abducted and raped a boy. It is almost impossible to get to know all their sexual affairs. Different standards and moral codes than that of Christianity or Islam. We can also look how women were treated in Buddhism or Hindu. But religions are not responsible for all the problems. In fact, focusing our attention on religions takes us away from the more profound influences. Love and sex have been a tool of control and mass manipulation. I have been reading Giordano Bruno’s On Magic and A General Account of Bonding ( The De vinculis in genere). His concepts of “chains” through love and sex has been successfully used through centuries through art, music, poetry, or movies to manipulate and control us. I haven’t finished Bruno’s book and I need to read more to get a deeper understanding of the mechanism of magic in binding.

You may ask yourself from where your concept of relationships and its fulfillment comes? Does religion plays the important roles or books and movies or psychology that shapes your ideas what people should do to have fulfillment and satisfaction.

Second, everything may be fine with your theory when people are young but the problem with fulfillment starts when men reach dreadful forties. If sex is the only means of having satisfying relationships, it means that there is no single men on earth who can have a fulfilling and satisfying relationship after 40’s.... It is not true at all and 1% is lucky. It would be very depressing for men to think that way. I hope that you can take a serious look at your beliefs regarding relationships.

I find this particular post of your greatly illuminating and in fact you got me to a point I have never thought. Yes housewives are some of the most neglected beings in society. I have seen a few families where women were hooked inside while their spouses, mostly high caliber professionals or businesspersons flirt with coworkers and they have the reason that compel their wives to hush up for their wives are at advantage financially and some of their ends are easily gratified and socially they are kind of upward. Inside them, however must be a void and maybe my analysis fails. But I know for sure some husbands take advantage of their male prowess society has bestowed on them since time immemorial. I like this A General Account of Bonding assertion. In fact I find some of the deeply socially and culturally suppressed human instincts, as you have beautifully put forth through another thread manifest in myths and legends. Sometimes I find my thoughts inexpressible in the world I am living in and they are discordant thoughts with what people take to be or the formulaic cine way. People have inherent differences and through a spurt of emotional and biological needs they abruptly get together and have physical intimacies and their chemistry match and things may go together for a while as long as the flow of desire has not dried up and yet in a while their desires do not become irresolute, vacillating here and there and yes I maybe mistaken in my assumptions and yet I am somewhere an impulsively driven being and in fact fail to understand the intricacy of relationship and that the 1 % successful men and women are really in harmony with one another is also questionable. I do not know why I often feel we through marriages bond together on the spur of the moment and in a while the thrill of being together, the warmth of cuddling, touching, caressing and fondling abates and one become sexually repulsive and the ones who still continue is for some other purposes, maybe after that the social relationship becomes profound. I feel among those who live thereafter with a seemingly intimate relationship is for the simple reason that if they do not cluster together they will have to live forlornly in this competitive world where everything is on sale. At the same time when two humans live together for a long period of time they may know a lot about themselves, their likes and dislikes, their interests, passions, limitations and the like and the same cannot be possible if they enter into a new relationship.

I am simply confused and though a lot of things have come to be disclosed to me at this point of time yet there are many things I have to learn about relationship.

One question I am still finding an answer of is what really connects two humans, male and female?

[cafolini]

I find this particular post of your greatly illuminating and in fact you got me to a point I have never thought. Yes housewives are some of the most neglected beings in society. I have seen a few families where women were hooked inside while their spouses, mostly high caliber professionals or businesspersons flirt with coworkers and they have the reason that compel their wives to hush up for their wives are at advantage financially and some of their ends are easily gratified and socially they are kind of upward. Inside them, however must be a void and maybe my analysis fails. But I know for sure some husbands take advantage of their male prowess society has bestowed on them since time immemorial. I like this A General Account of Bonding assertion. In fact I find some of the deeply socially and culturally suppressed human instincts, as you have beautifully put forth through another thread manifest in myths and legends. Sometimes I find my thoughts inexpressible in the world I am living in and they are discordant thoughts with what people take to be or the formulaic cine way. People have inherent differences and through a spurt of emotional and biological needs they abruptly get together and have physical intimacies and their chemistry match and things may go together for a while as long as the flow of desire has not dried up and yet in a while their desires do not become irresolute, vacillating here and there and yes I maybe mistaken in my assumptions and yet I am somewhere an impulsively driven being and in fact fail to understand the intricacy of relationship and that the 1 % successful men and women are really in harmony with one another is also questionable. I do not know why I often feel we through marriages bond together on the spur of the moment and in a while the thrill of being together, the warmth of cuddling, touching, caressing and fondling abates and one become sexually repulsive and the ones who still continue is for some other purposes, maybe after that the social relationship becomes profound. I feel among those who live thereafter with a seemingly intimate relationship is for the simple reason that if they do not cluster together they will have to live forlornly in this competitive world where everything is on sale. At the same time when two humans live together for a long period of time they may know a lot about themselves, their likes and dislikes, their interests, passions, limitations and the like and the same cannot be possible if they enter into a new relationship.

I am simply confused and though a lot of things have come to be disclosed to me at this point of time yet there are many things I have to learn about relationship.

One question I am still finding an answer of is what really connects two humans, male and female?

Friendship. As differences arrive that seem impassable, ability to be friends is the only connection. And as The Prophet once adviced, space for growth and encouragement for differences and the enhancement of them through unending friendship. Fidelity is not the necessary parameter. Loyalty is.

[ftil]

Originally posted by Osho:
In fact I find some of the deeply socially and culturally suppressed human instincts, as you have beautifully put forth through another thread manifest in myths and legends.

You are kidding, aren’t you? Suppressed human instincts……Nice explanations for gods behaviors to be free to rape goddesses and women. Or perhaps, cult of Astrate that required to perform prostitution to worship her. No thanks no. I don’t know if you can’t see it …or you choose not to see it because what you are saying is the oppression of women. So, we may ask a question who wrote those myths.

Herodotus, Histories 1. 199 :
"The foulest Babylonian custom is that which compels every woman of the land to sit in the temple of Aphrodite and have intercourse with some stranger once in her life . . . most sit down in the sacred plot of Aphrodite [Mylitta] . . . Once a woman has taken her place there, she does not go away to her home before some stranger has cast money into her lap, and had intercourse with her outside the temple; but while he casts the money, he must say, ‘I invite you in the name of Mylitta’ (that is the Assyrian name for Aphrodite)."

I maybe mistaken in my assumptions and yet I am somewhere an impulsively driven being and in fact fail to understand the intricacy of relationship and that the 1 % successful men and women are really in harmony with one another is also questionable.

Are you questioning that fact that 1% only have deep and fulfilling relationships or you think that nobody has deep and fulfilling relationships. If it is the latter, you may find a vast research that shows that only small percentage of people have deep and intimate relationships.

I like this A General Account of Bonding assertion.

Well, if we look at the bonding as a way to control and manipulate masses……it is not a good concept at all. I will be busy to study magic. I had a wrong ideas about magic or I would say a limited concept of magic.

One question I am still finding an answer of is what really connects two humans, male and female?

Everybody needs to find their own answer. But it means that we need to free our minds from external influences that program us what being a human means.

[osho]

You are kidding, aren’t you? Suppressed human instincts……Nice explanations for gods behaviors to be free to rape goddesses and women. Or perhaps, cult of Astrate that required to perform prostitution to worship her. No thanks no. I don’t know if you can’t see it …or you choose not to see it because what you are saying is the oppression of women. So, we may ask a question who wrote those myths.






Are you questioning that fact that 1% only have deep and fulfilling relationships or you think that nobody has deep and fulfilling relationships. If it is the latter, you may find a vast research that shows that only small percentage of people have deep and intimate relationships.



Well, if we look at the bonding as a way to control and manipulate masses……it is not a good concept at all. I will be busy to study magic. I had a wrong ideas about magic or I would say a limited concept of magic.



Everybody needs to find their own answer. But it means that we need to free our minds from external influences that program us what being a human means.

I am not kidding; in fact I am questioning and I am clueless, and wonder at human situations. I do not want to presuppose anything and of course I had things, vast sources of influences. Influences are everywhere and I simply cannot dodge them and even while conversing with you now across the globe your thoughts are swaying my mind and not that even if I mostly am critical of your thoughts and want to press forward my own notion .

This is what happens with me, with many others, a little bit with every mortal under the sun. Your example of Babylon Gods, their clouts and raucous rule over their subjects is revealing and yes the rest of other cultures is also not short of such accounts, and I have read Buddha clasped in sexual statures in Tantric books and Hindu temples are not running shorn of such statues where intercourse has been a way towards attainment or Nirvana. On the other hand we are told to internalize lessons to stave off acts of sex. When I was somewhat younger and come across a beautiful girl I had to put off the idea of touching her, not to mention kissing her as this is a sin and I was told I have to go through an entire marriage ceremony to engage myself in that act and that is how suppression takes hold of us,

Fertility culture in some pagan tribes were something Judo-Christianity had a kind of censored and women had no roles in Christianity and though there are plenty of evidence to endorse the fact that Jesus had a wife and he had a sexual intercourse his followers had negated it callously presenting the image of Jesus as somebody cold and insensible.

It seems this is my advocacy for free sex. Not at all. Sex is an intimate relationship, something that connects two humans, at times threesome too and this is my sheer observations of phenomena and not my inferences in any way.

[osho]

. Fidelity is not the necessary parameter. Loyalty is.

I like this subtle difference between fidelity and locality. I side with Loyalty