9/11 - Where Were You?

**stlukesguild** · 09-12-2011, 09:57 PM

I lived in New York City... or rather, Jersey City... just across the Hudson... but a few short years before 9/11. The towers were an everyday reality for me. They were a sort of compass as you traveled through Jersey or Manhattan... towering above everything else as a great beacon. My wife and I were dating at the time and we took any number of pictures of each other with the towers in the background...

We regularly walked through the World Trade Center after having taken the PATH train from Jersey under the Hudson into Manhattan. The scale of the buildings was immense and tens of not hundreds of thousands disembarked from the PATH into Lower Manhattan through WTC and up the stories high escalator every day. We often sat for lunch at Trinity Cathedral... one of the oldest churches in America (with tombstones dating to the 1600s)... in the shadow of the towers.

As the tragedy unfolded, we had friends in New York and New Jersey who we were unable to make contact with for days. Some in New Jersey had sat upon the roof of the building I had lived in not long before and watched as people jumped from the towers before they came crashing down covering the whole of the area in clouds of black smoke.

I had just begun teaching a few short years earlier in Cleveland, and was out of my school on a scheduled meeting with the whole of the arts faculty. As the meeting began, the news started to trickle in. Some teachers began to desperately attempt to call loved ones in NYC from their cell phones. Many were in tears. Flight 93 was still in the airspace over Northeast Ohio near Cleveland and the order went out to evacuate downtown and all office buildings. I was living in a studio-apartment downtown, but left the city for the suburbs until later in the afternoon. School was cancelled the next day, and I later found out that during the event students had been sent home under emergency evacuation conditions.

Just 2 short hours after the event gas stations were charging in excess of $5... $6... even $7 US per gallon at a time at which the going price was hovering around $2. The mayor sent out notice than any such price gouging would be treated as "war profiteering" and the proprietor would lose his or her licence to operate and be tried appropriately. Unfortunately, not all politicians were adverse to utilizing 9/11 for personal gain. I was absolutely sickened by the manner in which some wrapped themselves in the flag and used 9/11 as an excuse for all manner of things under the motto, "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists".

**Mutatis-Mutandis** · 09-12-2011, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Vonny

Certainly when something major goes on in the world, everyone should know about it. And I don't think that a teenager should have been prevented from seeing it. (Although years ago news traveled slowly and life went on.)

But if there's a car crash on the road in front of your house and bodies parts and guts are scattered about there's no reason to make sure to take the kids out to see it. If there's a lesson in it, such as the driver was drinking and you want to teach a teenager not to drink and drive, well maybe.

I personally don't think I'd be any better off today if I had watched all the coverage of 9/11.

I love history, myself. It's nice when you can see a few survivors, and that the world carried on in some way. The "Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire of 1911" was an event that people learned from that brought positive changes in our country.

I'm troubled by the media. I heard that at the Olympics there was a luger killed, and they showed this guy flying into a pole and being killed, and they replayed it over and over and over. I think that's disrespectful and also makes viewers numb to a person losing his life. It bothered me more that the man was Russian, or something. Athletes from those countries are often desperately trying to escape their circumstances, and so they are different from our athletes who are seeking wealth and fame.

One thing I wish I could remove completely from my brain is all knowledge of Satanists and how they sacrifice infants and animals. Ignorance about that was bliss. I struggle some on Halloween now.

Well, never watch certain foreign news stations, like Al Jazeera, who aren't shy at all about showing war in all its glory. Those images can be quite disturbing.

I don't know about the Satanists thing. Most "Satanists" only label themselves that as a sign of rebellion, which is what most Satanists are all about. Think for yourself, question authority, all that jazz. Think Milton. Anyone who sacrifices babies is insane, period.

{edit}

On a lighter and completely different note . . . is that you StLukes? I must say you don't fit my mental image at all. I always envisioned a hippy-ish type with a pony-tail. Don't take offense--when I hear artist, that's what I see. Artists should probably be offended.

**stlukesguild** · 09-12-2011, 10:31 PM

On a lighter and completely different note . . . is that you StLukes? I must say you don't fit my mental image at all. I always envisioned a hippy-ish type with a pony-tail.

I'm too young for the hippy-era... although I went through my period of neatly coiffed long hair in the 80s...

and my hair was actually shoulder-length at the time of my high-school graduation. For much of my stay in art school I looked like Grizzly Adams with a hang-over. It finally dawned on me that this wasn't the greatest way to impress the girls (Alex has his points) and I began to "dress for success"

Now I tend to fit in with the little ghetto urchins I teach:

**Mutatis-Mutandis** · 09-12-2011, 10:37 PM

Those pictures are absolutely epic.

When did you start getting into classical music? I only ask, because the top picture suggests more of an affinity for 70s rock (which is awesome).

**stlukesguild** · 09-12-2011, 10:42 PM

I started to explore all the arts with an absolute passion about the time of that photo (high school). I knew I would go on to do something in the arts... but wasn't certain if it would be in visual art, music, or literature... and so I decided to explore all of them as deeply as possible. I quickly eliminated music as a possibility (although I maintained a passion for it) for the simple reason that I had absolutely no talent for it whatsoever... in spite of having invested a small fortune on a white Fender Stratocaster.

**OrphanPip** · 09-12-2011, 11:53 PM

I don't think people on forums ever look as one imagines them. What really can we tell about a person's appearance from the way they produce forum postings?

Edit: Except for me, I'm as ruggedly handsome as you all imagine.

**JuniperWoolf** · 09-13-2011, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by Vonny

One thing I wish I could remove completely from my brain is all knowledge of Satanists and how they sacrifice infants and animals. Ignorance about that was bliss. I struggle some on Halloween now.

Someone told you that witches sacrifice babies on halloween?

**Scheherazade** · 09-13-2011, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by stlukesguild

Now I tend to fit in with the little ghetto urchins I teach:

Is that one of the "ghetto urchins" you teach next to you in the photo?

Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

Someone told you that witches sacrifice babies on halloween?

I thought it is a truth universally acknowledged that a witch seeks to sacrifice babies on Halloween...

**JuniperWoolf** · 09-13-2011, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Scheherazade

I thought it is a truth universally acknowledged that a witch seeks to sacrifice babies on Halloween...

Not at all. Actually, witchcraft is a legally protected religion in most countries (including the US, the UK and Canada). It'd be hard to pull that one off if you sacrificed babies.

Although now that I read back I guess Vonny did say "satanists" and not "witches" (witches don't believe in the devil, as it is a Christian diety). Still, what are you referring to, Vonny? The only homicidal maniac calling himself a satanist that I can think of is Richard Ramirez, and I believe that he mostly targeted old ladies.

**Lokasenna** · 09-13-2011, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

Although now that I read back I guess Vonny did say "satanists" and not "witches" (witches don't believe in the devil, as it is a Christian diety). Still, what are you referring to, Vonny? The only homicidal maniac calling himself a satanist that I can think of is Richard Ramirez, and I believe that he mostly targeted old ladies.

Though, of course, according to Christian doctrine witches do worship the devil, and he is the source of their power. As the medieval theologians would say, there are only two sources for supernatural interference in the natural world: God and Old Nick. As only saints are enfused with some measure of the divine power of God, anyone else who manifests supernatural power must, by logical deduction, have it from the other fellow.

That said, I know several witches, and they're very nice indeed. I'm more inclined to trust them than the theologians. Also, they're rather fond of babies in the cooing and playing sense.

**Mutatis-Mutandis** · 09-13-2011, 08:56 AM

I've also known a few self-proclaimed witches (I don't know what makes one a witch, other than carrying around crystals and liking wacky symbols; they said they were witches, so I took their word for it), my best friend among them for a time (we're an odd pair). They're pretty nice, if not somewhat, or extremely, eccentric. My best friend sure as hell is.

**Vonny** · 09-13-2011, 02:43 PM

I think Wicca is a New Age feminist fad. With Satanists I think in terms of men. There are women Satanists, but I think they are under the influence of men. Not many women have a tendency to deliberately, physically, sacrifice a baby. Many women are very adept, and have a strong tendency toward, psychological cruelty. If you think in terms of true witchcraft, I think the definition is manipulation, and there are many women who practice this, far more than men, although they don't call it witchcraft. Lokasenna wrote his thesis on this, although it isn't necessarily women who are beautiful on the outside, they have diverse appearances, and they go after other women or little girls as much as they do men. But I think witches like in The Wizard of Oz are cute.

In history it was women who were different in some way who were accused of being witches. If I had lived a couple of hundred years ago the women I work with would've tried to have me burned at the stake. They wouldn't do it as a sacrifice of me, they would say I deserved it.

Satanists know how to avoid the spotlight. They have no interest in going to prison. They probably don't sacrifice as many humans as they'd like, but they perform rituals and sacrifice black cats. Our local Humane Society does not permit the adoption of black cats in the month or weeks (I'm not sure the actual time span) preceding Halloween. They advise people to keep their black cats safe from being stolen around Halloween.

I've always enjoyed the idea of Halloween, although I didn't celebrate it much as a kid. I find the Celtic historical and legendary roots of it very fascinating, the little that I know about it, and even if there were sacrifices, it doesn't trouble me so much if it happened long ago. I don't think the roots of Halloween are Satanic, merely pagan, and if they made sacrifices they thought they were doing it for some worthwhile purpose, not as a worship of Satan.

**JBI** · 09-13-2011, 03:54 PM

Well, for the one 10 years ago, I was in class, the weekend right before my brother's Bar Mitzvah, so a lot of my relatives showed up early as they had been headed toward New York and redirected. As for the catastrophe that ousted the democratically elected government in Chile, I was not yet born.

By the way you shouldn't say "in America" it isn't a country. You mean in the United States, if you want an abridgment. There are numerous other countries throughout the continents known as the Americas.

**stlukesguild** · 09-13-2011, 04:27 PM

By the way you shouldn't say "in America" it isn't a country. You mean in the United States, if you want an abridgment. There are numerous other countries throughout the continents known as the Americas.

More of JBI's usual anti-Americanism. When people around the world speak of "America" and "Americans" we know exactly who they are referring to... and it ain't Canada or Mexico or citizens of Chile. The United States of America is the only nation with the term "America" in its official name. The official demonym for residents of the USA isn't "USAers" it is "Americans". America has been an abridgment for the USA since virtually the founding of the nation. Most people are intelligent enough to employ the terms "the Americas", "North America" and "South America" when referring to the continents as opposed to the USA. Not once have I come across JCamillo or any other South Americans bemoaning the fact that Whitman, Dickenson, and T.S. Eliot are thought of as American writers.Ther is probably therapy available to address your fixation upon the USA and your likely inferiority complex.

**Mutatis-Mutandis** · 09-13-2011, 05:38 PM

Mexico, Mexicans. Canada, Canadians. United States of America, Americans. Somewhat of a disconnect, yes, but it's just the way it is. Methinks JBI just wishes Canadian's claimed the moniker "American" first.

Originally Posted by Vonny

I think Wicca is a New Age feminist fad. With Satanists I think in terms of men. There are women Satanists, but I think they are under the influence of men. Not many women have a tendency to deliberately, physically, sacrifice a baby. Many women are very adept, and have a strong tendency toward, psychological cruelty. If you think in terms of true witchcraft, I think the definition is manipulation, and there are many women who practice this, far more than men, although they don't call it witchcraft. Lokasenna wrote his thesis on this, although it isn't necessarily women who are beautiful on the outside, they have diverse appearances, and they go after other women or little girls as much as they do men. But I think witches like in The Wizard of Oz are cute.

In history it was women who were different in some way who were accused of being witches. If I had lived a couple of hundred years ago the women I work with would've tried to have me burned at the stake. They wouldn't do it as a sacrifice of me, they would say I deserved it.

Satanists know how to avoid the spotlight. They have no interest in going to prison. They probably don't sacrifice as many humans as they'd like, but they perform rituals and sacrifice black cats. Our local Humane Society does not permit the adoption of black cats in the month or weeks (I'm not sure the actual time span) preceding Halloween. They advise people to keep their black cats safe from being stolen around Halloween.

That's quite a lot of claims and accusations. I can't EVER recollect hearing about "Satanists" being sacrificed, nor can I ever recall hearing about a baby being sacrificed at all, much less by Satanists. Do you have any sources, articles, to back up these claims? The only thing I can think of pertaining to Satanists committing crimes of this nature is the case of the West Memphis Three, which is highly suspect.