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Thread: Suicide

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    Suicide

    Do major religions still condemn suicide to the same degree? What are your views on the subject?

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    Original Poster Buh4Bee's Avatar
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    Christianity:
    I know that Christians do not believe it is a person's right to take their own life. Life is seen as a gift from God and only God's right to decide when someone's time has come to an end. However, it is believed that if the victim accepted Christ as their savior, through a state of grace their soul is saved and they are granted eternal life. The concept of salvation means that Christ absolves the soul by forgiveness all sins. With this golden ticket, it's off to the cloudy skies and through the pearly gates. See you sucka!

    But on a more serious note, I believe a person does have the right to take their life, if they are experiencing a deep level of pain that can not be resolved. I personally would never take my own life, but I can respect someone who felt the need to make this decision. A childhood friend's father recently committed suicide after battling MS for almost 16 years. He was done and now he is at peace. His whole family feels this way.

  3. #3
    From a philosophical point of view, I despise suicide.
    From an ethical point of view, it is better to die than suffer indignity.
    I, therefore, think that it is the right of every person to judge when the end has come for them.

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    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    I feel that a person should be able to do with their own personal body whatever they so desire. And so if a person makes the choice that they want to take their own life, that should be their right and their own personal business.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

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    Registered User Delta40's Avatar
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    what about the deep, deep pain that suicide causes others? Is it ok for Mum to stick her head in a gas oven while the kiddies sleep? Sylvia Plath's son comitted suicide later in his life. Do you think his mother's death was not a factor?
    Before sunlight can shine through a window, the blinds must be raised - American Proverb

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    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delta40 View Post
    what about the deep, deep pain that suicide causes others? Is it ok for Mum to stick her head in a gas oven while the kiddies sleep? Sylvia Plath's son comitted suicide later in his life. Do you think his mother's death was not a factor?
    That is something that is something that the individual to weigh for themselves.

    I do not think that someone use should decide another person's actions purely based upon the reactions others.

    It may be preferable to consider how your actions will emotionally affect other people around you, but I don't think someone else has the right to prevent you from doing something you have decided is the best choice for you just because someone else might be upset by it.

    Suicide may be a cowardly and selfish act (depending on the circumstances and reasons) but than one has the right to be selfish if that is their decision.

    I am not saying I think suicide is the correct choice to make in all situation. But I believe in the right of each person to make that choice for themselves.

    The suicide of her son may have been related to her own suicide but than not everyone whom had a parent commit suicide did so themselves. So her son still bares the responsibility for his own choice and actions. He choose to deal with his mother's death by taking his own life, but others in the same situation have made different choices for themselves.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

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    Registered User tailor STATELY's Avatar
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    Such a conflicting subject.

    Yes, everyone has his or her own agency, to use the Christian term, to do what they want; but that individual can not control the consequences of the use of their agency. Families and extended families and friends do suffer, immensely, long after a loved one's suicide.

    Many times the judgment of the individual was impaired when the suicidal agency/impulse/decision was made, and therefore that individual may not be responsible for their actions. This impairment could be due to chemical imbalances, stress, depression, health ( I believe these were major factors in my sister's suicide 5-years ago ), and other factors.

    My sister, outgoing and a delight to be with, left her husband, three children, three grandchildren, Mother, three brothers, one sister, many many close friends and extended family aching for answers. Less than a year later a fourth grandchild was added to her family that my sister never had knowledge of; this grandchild, and others to follow, will undoubtedly be affected by my sister's choice as well.

    As in the above - accountability in a faith-based structure may be skewed when thought in terms of whether a person was in their right mind, regardless of consequences, concerning suicide. IMHO
    Last edited by tailor STATELY; 09-04-2011 at 03:11 AM. Reason: a
    tailor

    who am I but a stitch in time
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    Registered User Delta40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I do not think that someone use should decide another person's actions purely based upon the reactions others.

    It may be preferable to consider how your actions will emotionally affect other people around you, but I don't think someone else has the right to prevent you from doing something you have decided is the best choice for you just because someone else might be upset by it.
    Why restrict this point of view only to suicide? Why not apply it across the board for any action that any individual feels they have the right to do and not let others prevent them? This is the ingredient for a lawless society. Weighing up a decision doesn't mean it won't impinge on the rights and freedoms of others. Are we allowed to do that too?
    Before sunlight can shine through a window, the blinds must be raised - American Proverb

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    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delta40 View Post
    Why restrict this point of view only to suicide? Why not apply it across the board for any action that any individual feels they have the right to do and not let others prevent them? This is the ingredient for a lawless society. Weighing up a decision doesn't mean it won't impinge on the rights and freedoms of others. Are we allowed to do that too?
    Because I do not think a person should be allowed to cause physical harm to another person. I just do not think that outside agencies should monitor what may or may not cause another person emotional harm, because that is more subjective.

    There is a difference between a person committing suicide and a person stabbing another person, or robbing from them. Because than they are directly depriving that other person of their right to live or their right to their own property.

    But while suicide may have an emotional affect upon other people, it does not directly take away any one else's right to their own life. Comiting suicide does not infringe on another person's rights over thier own person while causing physical harm does.

    How are actions may emotionally affect others should be a personal private matter between that individual and the others involved.

    But there should be outside forces that monitor how our actions physically affect others.

    I have a right not to be stabbed by another person, but I do not have the right not to be grieved by someone else choosing to take their own life .

    And I do apply it to other things than suicide. I do not want to get off topic here but to give one example. I think that prostitution should be legal because if a grown adult wants to trade their own body for money they should have the right to do so.
    Last edited by Dark Muse; 09-04-2011 at 03:47 AM.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

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    Registered User Delta40's Avatar
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    I disagree and I believe that it is not our purpose to cause others pain. Now if that pain is due to abuse by another, it is wrong. If the person who was abused takes their life and causes pain to another, that is also wrong. Their pain may have stopped only because they passed it on to others.
    Before sunlight can shine through a window, the blinds must be raised - American Proverb

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    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delta40 View Post
    I disagree and I believe that it is not our purpose to cause others pain. Now if that pain is due to abuse by another, it is wrong. If the person who was abused takes their life and causes pain to another, that is also wrong. Their pain may have stopped only because they passed it on to others.
    And what happens when you apply that thinking to other situations?

    What if a person is in a relationship which they no longer desire, but their leaving will cause the other person pain. Should they than stay simply to spare the other pain?

    Should we all be self-sacrificing simply for the sake of others without considering what we may want for ourselves?

    Is it better to simply continue to suffer our own pain because we don't want to do anything that may cause someone else pain?

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

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    The pain of another is never felt and an excuse for tyranny.

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    Registered User Delta40's Avatar
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    You could be right but both our arguments are black and white and we don't live in a pain free existence. We should thank Mark Chapman for showing the world that there is no such place as Imagine.
    Before sunlight can shine through a window, the blinds must be raised - American Proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delta40 View Post
    what about the deep, deep pain that suicide causes others? Is it ok for Mum to stick her head in a gas oven while the kiddies sleep? Sylvia Plath's son comitted suicide later in his life. Do you think his mother's death was not a factor?
    What makes our own suffering less important than another's? Would the son not have felt grief if his mother continued living in noticeable pain?

    But back to the religious/philosophical aspect, what is philosophically despicable about suicide? And jersea, if life is a "gift" from God and only He has the right to end it, do we have to appreciate this "gift" all the time, whatever else is wrapped inside it? If we do not have the right to end our lives, do we have the right to make other major decisions?

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    Original Poster Buh4Bee's Avatar
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    Nice conversation ladies, I did want to say, in the case of my friend's father who took his life his family was very supportive. They knew he would do it when it was the right time, because he was suffering so much and was going to die anyway. He wanted to die with dignity. In such a case as this, I believe he made the best choice and did not cause any others suffering.

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