And what do you make of the psychoanalysis? Was he a precursor of Freud or do Freudian interpretations mar the real subject of his works?
And what do you make of the psychoanalysis? Was he a precursor of Freud or do Freudian interpretations mar the real subject of his works?
Do you mean D.H Lawerence? He and Freud were contemporaries. As for the subject of his works they are all without a doubt Nietzschean, which may give them the appearence of being Freudian, because Freud too was heavily influenced by Nietzsche.
FR Leavis called him The Priest of Love, and one of the themes is certainly truth and honesty in relationships. He also kicked against what he saw as a false morality - his paintings were siezed under the decency laws of the time, and Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned of course.
Phallocracy.
I'm not that familiar with Nietzsche's philosophy. Could you elaborate?Originally Posted by Des Essientes
Shouldn't that be phallocrazy?
"L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.
"Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.
Nietzsche was a moral reformer who viciously attacked the one morality of his time - Christianity, which he saw as false. Like all reformers, Nietzsche just wanted to replace this false morality for his own approved morality, which, of course, was the true one.
I think Lawrence was a far simpler man: he clashed against the social mores of his time because he wrote very frank and positive depictions of sexuality. His characters like sex without feeling guilty, which is very un-Christian, or they are shown to feel guilty exactly because of the social mores that constrain them. He was a great observer of customs.
I don't think he was a moral reformer like Nietzsche: I believe that, as a novelist, he just saw it as his role to tackle previously unexplored areas of human behavior with seriousness and honesty, and inevitably had to upset his contemporaries in order to get room to do it.
I agree with you then
I don't know if it's true of all his novels but in Women in Love, Sons and Lovers,and Lady Chatterley's Lover, there's a struggle to find an ideal love- a love that satisfies physically and spiritually.
I have just read just two of Lawrence's books: Women in Love and Lady Chatterley's Love. I found the first very verbose, although beautifully written. I however, did not enjoy it, as I hoped too. The latter I found to be lovely and would place it on a list of favorite or most enjoyed reads. So, I answer this question based on my experience of reading these two books.
I don't know if Lawrence was influenced by Nietzsche. In the reading I did about his life, I did not find any evidence of this, but I could be wrong.
Lawrence was the son of a coal miner and an educated mother. He was intelligent and able to move himself beyond the confines of the working class life. I think he held some contempt for the aristocratic lifestyle. This I sensed from reading Lady Chatterley's Love as he often satirized the hollow conversations held among the guests in the Chatterley's home.
I know that he was often sick throughout the duration of his life and died when he was 44. I think that he was interested in the connection of the physical body and the mind and an element of this is the need to find a connection that is not entirely based on the stimulation of the mind, but the satisfaction of the flesh as well. KL mentioned this idea already.
Excellent. Most of you are dead on. I have studied a lot about Lawrence, who is my favorite author hands down. His short stories are brilliant and we used to have a long running thread to discuss them. I think all authors are influenced to some degree by the ideas of the day - be them new and inovative. However, Lawrence was unique and showed a great honesty in his work. I greatly admire the author and the fact he tried to do what no authors had done before him. He surely was a trailblazer and for the person who said they didn't care for Women in Love...that happens to be my favorite of the novels - perhaps because I read it first. I think one has to read into it the background of the war that existed in Europe at the time to fully understand Lawrence's intentions. Some lively discussion or reading commentary will help you understand the book better. It's a fine novel with many deeper meanings. I have read it twice and listened several times to an auto version and I find I only love the book more and understand it to a greater extent after re-exploring it.
And Lawrence was less interested in phallocrazy than in true human contact and sexuality which is a natural part of life. He abhored porn and felt his work was not porn. He wrote an essay on his views which is very interesting if you can get a hold of a copy.
"It's so mysterious, the land of tears."
Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Certainly, Women In Love is much more about human relationships than simply sex. Although he contributed to making it a nobler theme within literature, I think people exaggerate his interest in it. He was above all a realist with a fine eye for human behavior and the tragedy of the quotidian. Gerald's death stayed with me for days due to the delicate way Lawrence wrote it: "and as he fell something broke in his soul, and immediately he went to sleep." It broke my heart at the time.
You may be right Janine- I was pregnant when I read it. That may have been part of the issue. I will look at Lawrence again. I do enjoy him.
jersea, perhaps you were just too tired to enjoy it or have patience with it. I actually liked and got a lot out of listening to the audio CD set. I can look it up to let you know what that is called. A friend lent it to me. It was well narrated and oddly enough I noticed things I had not noticed during my two readings of the book. It is truly written well with beautiful poetry like prose - don't you think?
Heteronym, I definitely agree. Sex actually played a very little role in his works -not as people thought in the early part of the century. By today's standards, Lawrence is mild. His books are more about relationships and the difference between the sexes or the struggle that insue. I agree also about Gerald's death. It stayed with me for a long time. I still think about it and the isolation he must have felt on the mountainside. It was very tragic and broke my heart, too. To be able to do that an author is brilliant and understanding people below the surface.
Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
"It is truly written well with beautiful poetry like prose - don't you think?"
Oh yes, I very strongly agree about the beauty of the writing and I'd love the reference or I can look it up on Amazon.
My favourite Lawrence novel is definitely Sons and Lovers. Some people criticise Lawrence for being sensationalist but there's no way that charge could be levelled at Sons and Lovers.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
