Page 1 of 16 12345611 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 238

Thread: Exactly HOW is religion supposed to give meaning to life?

  1. #1
    Suzerain of Cost&Caution SleepyWitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Birkenhead, England
    Posts
    4,198
    Blog Entries
    41

    Exactly HOW is religion supposed to give meaning to life?

    Believers often say that you need religion because life would be pointless otherwise. But how exactly does religion give meaning to life? Looking at the 'great' monotheistic religions (I don't know enough about the others) it seems that they mainly tell people how to live their lives, i.e. they give them rules about family life, how to worship God etc. But that's not really what I would call 'meaning' or 'purpose'. E.g. the purpose of a pair of scissors is to cut things, i.e. an action outside the scissors themselves. We wouldn't normally say that the purpose of scissors is to have two blades and a handle with two holes for stickin your finers in and a screw in the middle for the blades to open etc (= rules for a good pair of scissors). Whereas rules for a 'religious' life do not refer to any purpose outside life itself... unless maybe you assume that sticking to those rules will make people happy, thus turning their life from a mere life into a happy one. But I don't remember the Bible etc. promising anyone happiness.
    So is it supposed to be the promise of a life after death that gives 'meaning' to this life?
    Other arguments seem kind of circular to me, e.g. 'The purpose of life is to please God.' So what?
    Anyway, I'd like to know why religious people think that religion gives meaning to their life and I'd like to hear some non-circular arguments.

  2. #2
    I think you pretty much answered your own question.

    God is an easy solution.
    De omnibus dubitandum.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    332
    It's an easy solution, and I think it satisfies some other basic needs – moral comfort, an accepting community sometimes (in my area a lot of atheists go to church just to socialize), and an output for spirituality.

  4. #4
    Registered User Red-Headed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    In Orbit...
    Posts
    846
    Blog Entries
    91
    A lot of things can give meaning to life, none of them have to be religion.
    docendo discimus

  5. #5
    rat in a strange garret Whifflingpin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    On the hill overlooking the harbour
    Posts
    2,561
    I think that you are right in saying that the purpose of religion is not to tell you how to live your life - that is however a likely consequence of a religious view.

    I think it is purely a question of definition. Observation and experience can inform us about all the whats and hows that we are capable of understanding, but in the last resort they cannot say why anything is as it is. Observation and analysis of a stone or an ant can provide all sorts of information about those objects but cannot show whether or not the stone or ant or anything else has any cosmic purpose or significance. Observation and analysis of things_as_they_are will not provide any kind of answer to a question like, "Is it OK to use a stone to squash an ant?" or even the question "does it make any sense to ask "is it OK?"?"

    Religion does not give meaning to life, except in the sense that when you state that life has a meaning, then you are making a religious statement.

    If you go on from the bald (and bold) assertion that life has a meaning, and then attempt to formulate what that meaning is, i.e. codify the religion, then you might rapidly find that the meaning has implications for how to conduct your life. Then you might have a frame of reference in which "Is it OK to use a stone to squash an ant?" has a meaning.
    Voices mysterious far and near,
    Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
    Are calling and whispering in my ear,
    Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?

  6. #6
    Registered User Red-Headed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    In Orbit...
    Posts
    846
    Blog Entries
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Whifflingpin View Post
    Religion does not give meaning to life, except in the sense that when you state that life has a meaning, then you are making a religious statement.
    Why? Ethics doesn't even have to be dependent on religion, neither do existentialist notions of reality & meaning.
    docendo discimus

  7. #7
    rat in a strange garret Whifflingpin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    On the hill overlooking the harbour
    Posts
    2,561
    "Ethics doesn't even have to be dependent on religion"

    As I said, it's a question of definition. Ethics certainly does not have to be dependent on a belief in God, or any kind of formalised belief system.

    It is however dependent on a belief that there is some meaning or purpose in existence. This is a belief that must be held, if it is held, without any proof, out of nothing. There is no way of coming to such a belief by way of reason or logic.

    I would say that a person who believed that life had a purpose had taken a religious stance, and might or might not go on to consider what that purpose could be. Someone who does not believe that life has any purpose is non-religious. Amongst the many definitions of religion, that is the one that I am choosing to use.

    "existentialist notions of reality & meaning."
    Far too complicated for me, but, I think if you claimed that a stone was real, that would not be a religious statement - if you claimed that the stone meant something, then it would be, by my previous definition, of course.
    Voices mysterious far and near,
    Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
    Are calling and whispering in my ear,
    Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?

  8. #8
    Registered User Red-Headed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    In Orbit...
    Posts
    846
    Blog Entries
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Whifflingpin View Post
    "Ethics doesn't even have to be dependent on religion"

    As I said, it's a question of definition. Ethics certainly does not have to be dependent on a belief in God, or any kind of formalised belief system.

    It is however dependent on a belief that there is some meaning or purpose in existence. This is a belief that must be held, if it is held, without any proof, out of nothing. There is no way of coming to such a belief by way of reason or logic.

    I would say that a person who believed that life had a purpose had taken a religious stance, and might or might not go on to consider what that purpose could be. Someone who does not believe that life has any purpose is non-religious. Amongst the many definitions of religion, that is the one that I am choosing to use.

    "existentialist notions of reality & meaning."
    Far too complicated for me, but, I think if you claimed that a stone was real, that would not be a religious statement - if you claimed that the stone meant something, then it would be, by my previous definition, of course.
    Hmmmm ... interesting, I'll have to think about this & get back to you. It's past midnight & I have to feed the mugwi ....
    docendo discimus

  9. #9
    Existentialist Varenne Rodin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    West
    Posts
    1,409
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Whifflingpin View Post
    "Ethics doesn't even have to be dependent on religion"

    As I said, it's a question of definition. Ethics certainly does not have to be dependent on a belief in God, or any kind of formalised belief system.

    It is however dependent on a belief that there is some meaning or purpose in existence. This is a belief that must be held, if it is held, without any proof, out of nothing. There is no way of coming to such a belief by way of reason or logic.

    I would say that a person who believed that life had a purpose had taken a religious stance, and might or might not go on to consider what that purpose could be. Someone who does not believe that life has any purpose is non-religious. Amongst the many definitions of religion, that is the one that I am choosing to use.

    "existentialist notions of reality & meaning."
    Far too complicated for me, but, I think if you claimed that a stone was real, that would not be a religious statement - if you claimed that the stone meant something, then it would be, by my previous definition, of course.
    That's not entirely true. Ethics can come from logic and reason. Morals can too. If someone steals from me, for example, I have to reorder a portion of my life to replace or do without the lost item. I can reason that it's time consuming for a victim of theft to process and remedy the theft. To me, empathy is not simply a belief system sprung from religious style fancy; it's an order to things, a way of having things run smoothly. It's the knowledge that actions have consequences, some of them negative. It doesn't hinge on feeling there is a higher meaning or specific purpose to life either. I, for one, see no purpose or point to life, yet I will act in my physical world according to physical cause and effect.

    There is no mysticism in my atheism.

  10. #10
    Bibliophile; Listmaniac
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by SleepyWitch View Post
    Believers often say that you need religion because life would be pointless otherwise. But how exactly does religion give meaning to life?
    One way to think about it is by examing the phrase "the meaning of life".

    I'd argue that on a purely formal basis, "meaning of X" has to refer to something that is not equal X, and that something also cannot be a part or subset of X.

    So by "meaning of (your) life", it has to refer to something beyond (your) life - something like "the meaning of your life is to allow you to live", or "the meaning of your life is to let your tummy grow" do not make sense for the term "meaning" on a purely formal basis.

    Thus, the "meaning of (your) life" has to point to something else, typical solution is to refer to say "a community", "a nation", "a God", "humanity", etc. Now, you have to decide for yourself, if "the meaning of your life" has to refer to something that is NOT your life, is this really *meaningful* to you? Here, I put asterisks next to "meaning" to suggest that it is an existential thing - no longer about definitions.

  11. #11
    If God existed, we'd still have to act as if he didn't to be ethical.

  12. #12
    rat in a strange garret Whifflingpin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    On the hill overlooking the harbour
    Posts
    2,561
    "If someone steals from me, for example, I have to reorder a portion of my life to replace or do without the lost item."
    To quote Sleepywitch, "So what?" Are you using that as an argument against theft? It is not, until you take the first non-logical, non-reasonable step of claiming that portions of your life have some meaning. All I have said is that I define that initial step as "religious."

    "If God existed, we'd still have to act as if he didn't to be ethical."

    If you mean that we'd have to act without fear of God's punishment or hope of God's favour, then I entirely agree with you.
    Voices mysterious far and near,
    Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
    Are calling and whispering in my ear,
    Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Whifflingpin View Post
    "If God existed, we'd still have to act as if he didn't to be ethical."

    If you mean that we'd have to act without fear of God's punishment or hope of God's favour, then I entirely agree with you.
    To be ethical one must go against God.

  14. #14
    Existentialist Varenne Rodin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    West
    Posts
    1,409
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Whifflingpin View Post
    "If someone steals from me, for example, I have to reorder a portion of my life to replace or do without the lost item."
    To quote Sleepywitch, "So what?" Are you using that as an argument against theft? It is not, until you take the first non-logical, non-reasonable step of claiming that portions of your life have some meaning. All I have said is that I define that initial step as "religious."
    What meaning do those portions of life have? By your reasoning, absolutely everything is religious.

  15. #15
    Bibliophile Drkshadow03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    My heart lives in New York.
    Posts
    1,716
    In Judaism there really isn't a sharp divide between culture, religion, and ethnicity. Of course, there are examples that challenge this observation like say a black christian American converting to Judaism, in which case he wouldn't be ethnically Jewish, but this observation holds for the most part for most of the Jewish population. I would suggest culture itself is meaningful; it's a lens upon which we view the world around us, even directs how we decide which values should matter the most to us. I think equating religion with God belief is a mistake of atheists. I can remove God from the equation and Judaism would still be meaningful to me. Even the Bible would still be extremely meaningful to me.
    "You understand well enough what slavery is, but freedom you have never experienced, so you do not know if it tastes sweet or bitter. If you ever did come to experience it, you would advise us to fight for it not with spears only, but with axes too." - Herodotus

    https://consolationofreading.wordpress.com/ - my book blog!
    Feed the Hungry!

Page 1 of 16 12345611 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. "Sensei, let me give you your soul back"
    By greedyduck in forum Short Story Sharing
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-02-2011, 02:48 AM
  2. No Subject
    By Unregistered in forum The Voyage of the Beagle
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-21-2010, 11:44 PM
  3. A guide on how to live ones life
    By Alan McDougall in forum General Writing
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-14-2009, 05:39 AM
  4. Can you define or confine life in your words?
    By blazeofglory in forum General Writing
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-10-2008, 11:46 AM
  5. Thoughts on Atheism
    By atiguhya padma in forum Philosophical Literature
    Replies: 168
    Last Post: 08-07-2007, 03:32 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •