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Thread: Why does a good God promote suffering?

  1. #346
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    Originally Posted by usman.khawar
    the arguement i posted , and the book explained, it, is not the same which u told me . simply u didn't read that or miss to read.

    further, if i talk about the argument which u mentioned.. is good, for atheist, what a beautiful evolution, billions of lives, so balanced so perfect system of earth and cosmos. whats a beautiful accident



    Your quote:

    O' My Lord! give us the knowledge of reality of the things. Amen.


    Which is, as I said, the universe being built on design, there must be a designer, to me, that is God, and that knowledge is reality.

    The person who cannot accept the existence of a supreme being, their reality and knowledge dictates chance and evolution, to them, viable truth.

    Perhaps we should all cling to our own belief system, and if others disagree, let them, and let us live in peace.

    Si quis autem ignorat, ignorabitur.

    God bless you richly,

    Pen


    Thanks Pen for prays, God bless you too richly...

    once again that is not the argument i m talking about.

    some people say in counter argument for this design argument , for instance in a forest there is no planing for trees, but out of it, it becomes automatically a design. so as it is, in this universe it becomes automatically a design so this is not enough or final proof of God's existence. in words of my teacher, very well explained this concept also in that book i m reffering to you, are as given below:

    " it is important to note that all the proofs of God’s existence that have been provided by theologians so far have been abstract and particular. They lacked absolute authority, and the possibility of doubt always remained. For instance the cosmological argument states that God was the ‘first cause’ who created the cosmos. The opponents of this claim have argued that ‘Nature’ can be regarded as the Creator and if the design of the universe is attributed to God, it can equally be ascribed to a ‘chance event’. The ‘teleological argument’ points to the complex order and design of the universe as evidence of God. In response some have claimed that the matter of the universe has evolved over time and has become more refined and complex. If the theologians point to the orbits of the planets and stars to show the fine planning that must be behind all this, their opponents simply argue that this system arose from chaos and chance collisions and upheavals led to the natural order we see today"



    you just pick this pray of Muhammad The Last messenger of God from the 1st page of the thread. the book which explained this argument ,everyothers misconceptions, starts from next pages of that thread. which 1st chapter is "humanity let down by the gatekeepers of the knoweldge"

    if u like to read that unbreakable scientific objective argument and which provides us absolute authourity in reason and argument in favor of God's existence, here is the link .. http://www.alamaat.com/TheArgument.php.. start from the 1st chapter..


    your quote "Perhaps we should all cling to our own belief system, and if others disagree, let them, and let us live in peace"

    what if other person is saying rightly and have a better beleif system and better argument then what ? should we still cling to our own beleif system ? should not we think about the other's strong argument or just turn our back towards it as we never listen that? does prejudice stops a person or is it anything else ?
    Last edited by usman.khawar; 04-25-2012 at 02:03 PM.
    Rab e adkhilni Mudkhla Sidqnw wa akhrijni mukhraja sidkanw wja alni milla dunka Sultananasira!!

  2. #347
    Lost in my own mind Pendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usman.khawar View Post

    what if other person is saying rightly and have a better beleif system and better argument then what ? should we still cling to our own beleif system ? should not we think about the other's strong argument or just turn our back towards it as we never listen that? does prejudice stops a person or is it anything else ?
    That "better belief system" is a matter of opinion, with which I disagree. God bless
    Some of us laugh
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  3. #348
    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    That "better belief system" is a matter of opinion, with which I disagree. God bless
    Amen...
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

  4. #349
    Lost in my own mind Pendragon's Avatar
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    I do find it distasteful that when someone like myself is willing to allow others their own way of believing, attitude seems to disfavor that person. Some seem to have this view: "Shut up and I'll show you just where you're wrong." If I cannot agree with someone, if I have a different view, if I don't believe that they have a better answer, I still strive to be civil.

    This quote was in my inbox today, from an old friend in California. We are close friends even while being of widely differing views on Christianity. I'll pass it along, as it is good advice.


    Thought for the day: Let go of your need to always be right. There are so many of us who can’t stand the idea of being wrong — wanting to always be right — even at the risk of ending great relationships or causing a great deal of stress and pain, for us and for others, it’s just not worth it. Whenever you feel the ‘urgent’ need to jump into a fight over who is right and who is wrong, ask yourself this question: “Would I rather be right, or would I rather be kind?” — Wayne Dyer.

    God bless

    Pen
    Some of us laugh
    Some of us cry
    Some of us smoke
    Some of us lie
    But it's all just the way
    that we cope with our lives...

  5. #350
    Registered User Darcy88's Avatar
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    Because heaven is the hereAFTER, not the here NOW. lol.

  6. #351
    ShadowsCool ShadowsCool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    Thought for the day: Let go of your need to always be right. There are so many of us who can’t stand the idea of being wrong — wanting to always be right — even at the risk of ending great relationships or causing a great deal of stress and pain, for us and for others, it’s just not worth it. Whenever you feel the ‘urgent’ need to jump into a fight over who is right and who is wrong, ask yourself this question: “Would I rather be right, or would I rather be kind?” — Wayne Dyer.

    God bless

    Pen
    For the most part, religions teach tolerance of others. At least I think they do. Except for nut jobs who take things to the extreme. However, when you get to the core of major religious belief's, they do tend to clash with one another. For instance, Christianity says to get along with your fellow man but have no indulgence with a non believer. Wipe your feet of them. I know other religions have similar sayings.

    I don't think it's about being right or nice but following one's teachings.

    I was dating someone once who fell into the Jehovah's witness camp. They brainwashed her to the point of our relationship ending. Sad result of religious intolerance.
    shad·ow ing

  7. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    That "better belief system" is a matter of opinion, with which I disagree. God bless

    i would chose to be kind hehe. well i think opinion is based on some facts. should be authentic ones to give better opinion. is there any criteria to judge or check about the best opinion among so many ?


    God bless
    Rab e adkhilni Mudkhla Sidqnw wa akhrijni mukhraja sidkanw wja alni milla dunka Sultananasira!!

  8. #353
    Lost in my own mind Pendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usman.khawar View Post
    i would chose to be kind hehe. well i think opinion is based on some facts. should be authentic ones to give better opinion. is there any criteria to judge or check about the best opinion among so many ?


    God bless
    My friend, I can conceive of no criteria about religious beliefs that would be unanimously agreed upon by any two people. Everyone believes that they are correct in what they believe, and seldom have I seen a change among the people that are truly convinced that they are in the right. An undecided person is easier to approach with an invitation to listen; a person firm in their belief will seldom waver.

    This above all: to thine own self be true,
    And it must follow, as the night the day,
    Thou canst not then be false to any man.
    Farewell, my blessing season this in thee


    From Hamlet by William Shakespeare

    It is why I agree to disagree with people, and remain friends.

    God bless
    Some of us laugh
    Some of us cry
    Some of us smoke
    Some of us lie
    But it's all just the way
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  9. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    My friend, I can conceive of no criteria about religious beliefs that would be unanimously agreed upon by any two people. God bless

    you are right. Mankind didnt work upon it. the only reason it seems to me that Mankind never took God in their 1st prioirty. 1st priority of intellectual curosity. otherwise there is a criteria i know. A very scientific and objective one. Already mentioned in the book which i shared.
    Rab e adkhilni Mudkhla Sidqnw wa akhrijni mukhraja sidkanw wja alni milla dunka Sultananasira!!

  10. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    I do find it distasteful that when someone like myself is willing to allow others their own way of believing....
    Yes, it is tiresome doing that. But I do thank people like you for allowing me to believe what I want to believe.

  11. #356
    ShadowsCool ShadowsCool's Avatar
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    I no longer have anything to say about God in this section. It's a no-win situation. Besides, even the mods misunderstand and throw stones at ya.
    shad·ow ing

  12. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowsCool View Post
    I no longer have anything to say about God in this section. It's a no-win situation. Besides, even the mods misunderstand and throw stones at ya.
    Thrown stones from misunderstanding mods are not exclusive to the God crowd, trust me.

  13. #358
    In the fog Charles Darnay's Avatar
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    I'm surprised this thread has been going on as long as it has.....but.....

    I saw this today ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2n7vSPwhSU ) - and it is cases like these that makes me both wonder "why, if God exists, does He let people like this thrive" and "this makes me want to have nothing to do with religion."

    I am fully aware that cases like these are the minority in the grand scheme of things, but if I was part of a religious institution I would be embarrassed by association: not only because of the hatred but the sheer stupidity of the whole thing.
    Last edited by Charles Darnay; 05-21-2012 at 09:46 PM.
    I wrote a poem on a leaf and it blew away...

  14. #359
    ShadowsCool ShadowsCool's Avatar
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    I think that guy is filled with hate. It's one thing to say privately that homosexuality is wrong, another thing to say I want them all dead. The guy is a whack job and not to be associated with any clear thinking religion.
    Last edited by ShadowsCool; 05-21-2012 at 09:55 PM.
    shad·ow ing

  15. #360
    Lost in my own mind Pendragon's Avatar
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    They call what this guy is saying "extreme prejudice". Does he really think he could convert any person with same sex preference with this kind of attack? As he said, "God, have mercy!" It's for certain this man has none...
    Some of us laugh
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    Some of us smoke
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    But it's all just the way
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