Dentistry - Facts and Fictions

[Musicology]

I am prepared to read anything that is recommended to me. I am not prepared to believe everything that is recommended to me. But if you can give some reasons why I should agree with your position, please provide them here. Assuming you have read it yourself. That is how discussion works. Try again. And this time tell us what you have learned by reading the literature you recommend. Since we do not know. Please tell us.

So you ask for evidence, which has been supplied, but you're not prepared to read it.

[Panglossian]

Let's face it, dentists are pure evil, and here is the proof. FACT.

[MarkBastable]

I am prepared to read anything that is recommended to me, you say.

Calidore has recommended it to you.

[Musicology]

The madness and insanity of crowds is well known. If the gullible public wish to use materials that are toxic and are recommended to do so by 'experts' we arrive at whole industries whose dogmas are the opposite of common sense.

Speaking of toxins, there is of course no truth in the idea that our air, our sea, our water, our food, our plants, our toothpaste, our drinks and our bodies are being increasingly bombarded by them. Those are just products of our 'scientific civilization'.

Right ?

Yes, and we wait for you to give us some evidence from it to support your view. Then we can have a discussion. But not till then. Unless you provide some I have better things to do. Where is your evidence ? Please provide some. Here on the thread.

I am prepared to read anything that is recommended to me, you say.

Calidore has recommended it to you.

[MarkBastable]

Yes, and we wait for you to give us some evidence from it to support your view. Then we can have a discussion. But not till then. Unless you provide some I have better things to do. Where is your evidence ? Please provide some. Here on the thread.

Why me? What's wrong with Calidore?

[kiki1982]

I think we'll talk again when you have had a VERY PAINFUL abcess or when you have been walking around with toothache.

I can tell you, that is excruciating. Fortunately the dentist could save my tooth, otherwise I would have had to have it pulled, which I was not looking forward to.

[TheFifthElement]

Yes, and we wait for you to give us some evidence from it to support your view.

It's an old cliche but true here:

"I'll show you mine, when you show me yours."

*Edit* oh yeah, I already showed you some evidence.

Show me your's...

[Musicology]

Your post has nothing to do with the myths of dentistry. One of which is that ''too much sugar corrodes the enamel of teeth''. It does NOT do so. And nobody has produced any evidence.

And, as far as your recommended safe limits of toxins is concerned (which you suggest in a previous post) it is of course best to avoid using them altogether. Since they may cause things like painful abcesses. From the toxins which build up in areas such as the nerve area of the tooth. Inside, that is.

But anyway, thanks.

I am glad your problem was solved by a dentist pulling the tooth out.

I think we'll talk again when you have had a VERY PAINFUL abcess or when you have been walking around with toothache.

I can tell you, that is excruciating. Fortunately the dentist could save my tooth, otherwise I would have had to have it pulled, which I was not looking forward to.

No, you have cited no evidence. We still wait for ANY evidence that 'too much sugar cases dental decay'. There is none.

If you have some evidence it's time for you to produce it. You can't. You don't have any. That's why. And nor can anybody else.

5 pages of this thread are quite enough. The emperor has no clothes.

And stop eating fluoride. It's not good for you. It dumbs you down.

(This message was brought to you free by a critic of the dental industry and the toothpaste industry. An industry who refuse to provide any evidence for what they are taught and for what they teach the public. As usual. They can take their toxic toothpaste somewhere else. Dump it in the trash ! With their fictions of 'too much sugar causes tooth decay'. It doesn't. The enamel of teeth is NOT decayed by eating too much sugar. In fact the enamel is unaffected by any intake of sugar. And toxins in any toothpaste are a bad idea. Why do they push those poisons on people ? So they should stop the lies. Or produce evidence. There is none. There never has been.

It's an old cliche but true here:

"I'll show you mine, when you show me yours."

*Edit* oh yeah, I already showed you some evidence.

Show me your's...

[Calidore]

Why me? What's wrong with Calidore?

He was sleeping.

This thread has gone the same way as the Fukushima thread. Musicology takes contrary positions on a variety of apparently self-evident topics, aggressively demands evidence, ignores it when it appears, and supplies nothing himself but repetition and condescention. He's either doing it deliberately as a psychology experiment or because he just enjoys baiting people and watching them leap for it, or he's mentally ill and unable to cope with any reality but his own. Either way, he's not interested in discussion or debate, so attempting any more of either is pointless.

[Musicology]

Calidore,

I am asking for some evidence to be presented on this thread for readers and myself that ''too much sugar causes tooth decay''. Surely you can produce some. Can't you ? You are our last great hope ! It is said to exist in dental journals and publications. Nobody has yet produced any such 'evidence'. Not once. Where is it ??? And here we are on Page 5 and still nobody (not anyone) has produced evidence to support that dogma.

It's a dogma that comes from the dental industry and from the toothpaste industry. Isn't it ? The same dental industry and the same toothpaste industry who want us to brush our teeth with products which contain poisons. Just a coincidence, right ? Industries which (for reasons known only to you) is the one you choose to support on sugar and tooth decay. Why ? Do you own shares in the dental industry or in the toothpaste industry ?

Now, I am a patient man. I am prepared as anyone can see to wait pages and pages to see what evidence can actually be produced to support the false dogma you are pushing. So far we have seen none. None at all. It's hilarious !!

You now say I am ''not interested in discussion or debate'' !! When the very opposite is true. Here we are on Page 5 and I am STILL waiting for evidence that ''too much sugar causes corrosion of the teeth''. So are others. Do you have any to show us ?? Any at all ? I am so interested in your answer I am prepared to wait even longer for it. But you ain't got any have you ?

But you now say, 'He is not interested in discussion or debate, so attempting any more of either is pointless'.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And there you have it folks !! What more can we say ? The surreal world of popular fiction. They believe this rubbish with zero evidence to show us. They spend millions to convince you. And you don't believe them, do you ?

Let's pretend nobody notices Calidore is limited to talking fiction and sheer unsubstantiated nonsense. Accusing his critics of needing mental care. Yes, that sounds like vested interests, doesn't it ?

Gilbert and Sullivan
'Never Mind the Why and Wherefore'
HMS Pinafore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo

He was sleeping.

This thread has gone the same way as the Fukushima thread. Musicology takes contrary positions on a variety of apparently self-evident topics, aggressively demands evidence, ignores it when it appears, and supplies nothing himself but repetition and condescention. He's either doing it deliberately as a psychology experiment or because he just enjoys baiting people and watching them leap for it, or he's mentally ill and unable to cope with any reality but his own. Either way, he's not interested in discussion or debate, so attempting any more of either is pointless.

[Panglossian]

I personally do not know what causes tooth decay, but below is the common wisdom on the subject of sugar and tooth decay. Can you prove it isn't the case?

Technically speaking, sugar does not cause cavities alone–they are caused by an interaction between plaque bacteria and your diet known as “dental caries.” Ninety-seven percent of people everywhere have this problem.

Imagine a thin layer of microorganisms living on your teeth. Again, these are micro-organisms, far too small for you to see or feel until they build up and form “dental plaque”. These microorganisms are capable of producing acid which lowers the pH level next to your teeth. “pH level” means how much acid, how much base. If the pH level around your teeth goes below around 5.5, acids dominate and your tooth enamel starts to break apart. Above the 5.5 mark, teeth stay okay.

Cavities aren’t caused by microorganisms eating your teeth, as some say. They’re caused by microorganisms living their own lives on your teeth, and as a by-product, changing the pH balance. But guess what those microorganisms do eat? They eat sugar.

When you eat sugar, and don’t brush afterwards, the little guys have a feast. And that means pH levels will drop, which leads to tooth decay, which is cavities. So while sugar itself doesn’t hurt teeth, it indirectly causes cavities. There’s no getting around it. Eat fewer sweets and brush more often, and cavities will be less likely to form.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Thank you Mutatis Mutandi,

No, you are not going to provide any proof. Even when we repeatedly ask you to support what you posted.

'It's life, but not as we know it'.

Have a nice day !

Gilbert and Sullivan
'Never Mind the Why and Wherefore'
HMS Pinafore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ze_WFHBBo

Do you even pay attention to your own threads, Music? Support what I posted? I didn't even post anything that needs supporting (as you can see below), unless you want me to support the "90% of dentists" comment, which I can't, because it was fabricated. And who is "we"? Is Musicology more than one person? Now THERE'S a conspiracy.

Absurdity of the thread's premise notwithstanding, I have come to the conclusion that approximately 90% of dentists are money-grubbing charlatans.

Naw, let him stay. He makes things fun.

I love how Musicology is always prove this and prove that, but when HE is pressed, man can he dodge.

I'm not going to provide any proof as to how sugar corrodes tooth enamel. I don't care either way. You're the one obsessed with it. I'm still going to brush my teeth, as doing otherwise is gross.

It doesn't matter, though, as people have been saying AGAIN and AGAIN that it is not the sugar that breaks corrodes enamel but acids produced by the sugar.

I have a crazy idea that will yield no results. Musicology, you started this thread, why don't you provide some better evidence to support your claim, since, being the one that goes against an almost universal scientific consensus that the acid from sugar corrodes tooth enamel, it is the claim that most needs support. So far, you've posted links to this (which doesn't even seem to be relevant), this (of which I can't find anything that supports your claim, as we don't know what the person ate), this (completely irrelevant), and you copied and pasted this article, which seems dubious at best. People have posted links which you have ignored.

Oh, and as to your "we swallow sugar argument, so it doesn't stay in our mouths" which you seem to think is an immensely clever argument (no one has refuted it because it's so absurd, but I'll indulge you), I ask you this: Have you ever eaten a candy bar? A cookie? Food in general? If you have, you probably noticed how food gets stuck in between teeth, behind teeth, around teeth, even ON teeth. Even liquids leave residue behind.

So, what next, Music? Are you going to answer questions, provide questions, or just exhibit more snide and trollish behavior? I know what I'm betting on. . . .

[Buh4Bee]

It's not just enamel and tooth paste that are concerns. You can buy "organic" tooth paste- US brand Tom's of Maine. There is still serious concerns of bacteria and gum disease. An organic diet is not enough. You will end up needing surgery if you don't do something to keep your mouth clean. Brushing twice a day and glossing is what is generally recommended.

I know this thread is kind of a joke!

[Musicology]

Jersea,

You do not seem to have read this thread thoroughly. I have already said today that we need to clean our teeth. We are not talking about that, are we ? (If you cannot find the post where I said so I will remind you of it). We are here discussing (or trying to discuss) whether too much sugar causes tooth decay. The industry says it does. And so does the toothpaste industry.

Please stay with us to see if any evidence in support of that view is produced here. It will never appear. You may be sure of it. Because it is nonsense that comes from the same industries who never complain when poisonous toothpaste is advertised, sold and consumed internationally.

Regards

It's not just enamel and tooth paste that are concerns. You can buy "organic" tooth paste- US brand Tom's of Maine. There is still serious concerns of bacteria and gum disease. An organic diet is not enough. You will end up needing surgery if you don't do something to keep your mouth clean. Brushing twice a day and glossing is what is generally recommended.

I know this thread is kind of a joke!

OK, you don't know what causes tooth decay. The dental industry tells us too much sugar causes major tooth decay. It's the 'common wisdom', as you say. And we are waiting to see if anyone can provide supporting evidence for this dogma of theirs. We are now on page 5. And are still waiting.

Time will tell if they can do so.

You see that so far they cannot. Not a very impressive record for 'common wisdom' is it ?

I personally do not know what causes tooth decay, but below is the common wisdom on the subject of sugar and tooth decay. Can you prove it isn't the case?

Technically speaking, sugar does not cause cavities alone–they are caused by an interaction between plaque bacteria and your diet known as “dental caries.” Ninety-seven percent of people everywhere have this problem.

Imagine a thin layer of microorganisms living on your teeth. Again, these are micro-organisms, far too small for you to see or feel until they build up and form “dental plaque”. These microorganisms are capable of producing acid which lowers the pH level next to your teeth. “pH level” means how much acid, how much base. If the pH level around your teeth goes below around 5.5, acids dominate and your tooth enamel starts to break apart. Above the 5.5 mark, teeth stay okay.

Cavities aren’t caused by microorganisms eating your teeth, as some say. They’re caused by microorganisms living their own lives on your teeth, and as a by-product, changing the pH balance. But guess what those microorganisms do eat? They eat sugar.

When you eat sugar, and don’t brush afterwards, the little guys have a feast. And that means pH levels will drop, which leads to tooth decay, which is cavities. So while sugar itself doesn’t hurt teeth, it indirectly causes cavities. There’s no getting around it. Eat fewer sweets and brush more often, and cavities will be less likely to form.

When is the evidence going to be posted here that 'too much sugar causes corrosion of the teeth' ?

Page 6 and counting.

I have in my kitchen a jar of strawberry jam. It is months old. The strawberries are preserved in....... SUGAR ! They have not corroded. Indeed, sugar PRESERVES them. Try preserving strawberries in fluoride toothpaste and see what happens.

Should I repent of telling you this ?

So, sugar PRESERVES organic matter. Ah !! That means it does the opposite of corroding it.

The implications are large, are they not ?

Do you even pay attention to your own threads, Music? Support what I posted? I didn't even post anything that needs supporting (as you can see below), unless you want me to support the "90% of dentists" comment, which I can't, because it was fabricated. And who is "we"? Is Musicology more than one person? Now THERE'S a conspiracy.










I have a crazy idea that will yield no results. Musicology, you started this thread, why don't you provide some better evidence to support your claim, since, being the one that goes against an almost universal scientific consensus that the acid from sugar corrodes tooth enamel, it is the claim that most needs support. So far, you've posted links to this (which doesn't even seem to be relevant), this (of which I can't find anything that supports your claim, as we don't know what the person ate), this (completely irrelevant), and you copied and pasted this article, which seems dubious at best. People have posted links which you have ignored.

Oh, and as to your "we swallow sugar argument, so it doesn't stay in our mouths" which you seem to think is an immensely clever argument (no one has refuted it because it's so absurd, but I'll indulge you), I ask you this: Have you ever eaten a candy bar? A cookie? Food in general? If you have, you probably noticed how food gets stuck in between teeth, behind teeth, around teeth, even ON teeth. Even liquids leave residue behind.

So, what next, Music? Are you going to answer questions, provide questions, or just exhibit more snide and trollish behavior? I know what I'm betting on. . . .

[Alexander III]

Alexander111,

The plaque which may build up on teeth does not corrode the enamel. It is generally removed by brushing. But, best of all, by eating a diet which does not cause plaque to form in the first place. Dental removal of plaque can sometimes cause more problems than it solves if it damages the enamel.

Using toothpaste which contains toxic material is not a good idea. Some of it goes in to our bloodstream, for a start. This may affect the gums, which, in time, may destabilise the teeth from within if we do not have a good diet. And any build up of plaque exposes us to external attack of the gums by microbes, germs and other things.

The toothpaste they do not sell (and should) is made freshly and daily from plants. A good toothpaste may be made from watercress in the form of a smooth paste. Yes, that's right. Salt in small quantities is sometimes used to clean teeth although it is very abrasive on its own. It should first be dissolved in warm water. But the diet is vital.

so you have stopped brushing your teeth?

if you have, to be honest I can't see anything wrong with that. The only real problem is that it would severely hinder your attempts at carnal pleasure, but you seem more of a man devoted to his studies and knowledge so I don't doubt that carnal pleasure is just a superfluous trifle for you anyways.