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Thread: Niccolo Machiavelli

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    Niccolo Machiavelli

    Does anyone know how Machiavelli's writings affected our world/country's systems of government?

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    'Il Principe' is the single greatest,most realistic and inspiring read i have encountered. Macchiavellis' knowledge of human pyschology surpassses that of shakespeare and his book is really the only truthful,clear and timeless document on politics that we possess. If i was limited to only one book for my lifetime this is the one. It is a book that puts 'experience,liberty and action above all else'. Fabulous.
    For the OP,i believe every major politican and General (and most rappers!) will study this book,many historical politicians have,and it was reputed Napoleans fave. And if you read between todays media lines all governments follow this kind of system (and did so before Niccolo wrote about them.) ,the problem is they have not the 'Virtu' or the wisdom to implement the sytem in its correct spirit. Macchiavelli loved liberty,he was not an immoralist or dishonourable.
    Last edited by Theunderground; 10-07-2011 at 11:51 AM.

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    I agree. I have read his book and I was stunned to find it full of political wisdom and from a management standpoint this book is simply unbeatable. I like two ancient books: one Sun tzu''s the art of war and the other Nikolai Machiavelli's prince. The book is really moving and from a strategic point of view I find it insuperable.

    Of course his ideas are diplomatic and are said to teach deceit, treachery and diplomacy. However I find him really matchless and in today's world is really more relevant than ever before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by osho View Post
    I agree. I have read his book and I was stunned to find it full of political wisdom and from a management standpoint this book is simply unbeatable. I like two ancient books: one Sun tzu''s the art of war and the other Nikolai Machiavelli's prince. The book is really moving and from a strategic point of view I find it insuperable.

    Of course his ideas are diplomatic and are said to teach deceit, treachery and diplomacy. However I find him really matchless and in today's world is really more relevant than ever before.
    Totally disagree with this. Machiavelli has been fully overcome, except in the mongering objectivism of the dynamic museum of history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theunderground View Post
    'Il Principe' is the single greatest,most realistic and inspiring read i have encountered. Macchiavellis' knowledge of human pyschology surpassses that of shakespeare and his book is really the only truthful,clear and timeless document on politics that we possess. If i was limited to only one book for my lifetime this is the one. It is a book that puts 'experience,liberty and action above all else'. Fabulous.
    For the OP,i believe every major politican and General (and most rappers!) will study this book,many historical politicians have,and it was reputed Napoleans fave. And if you read between todays media lines all governments follow this kind of system (and did so before Niccolo wrote about them.) ,the problem is they have not the 'Virtu' or the wisdom to implement the sytem in its correct spirit. Macchiavelli loved liberty,he was not an immoralist or dishonourable.
    I believe realpolitik would be the more specific term for diplomacy and how many individuals treat one another. As to the reference of Napoleon, he was also known to like The Art of War, and many other generals and leaders utilized its principles. If one Vo Nguyen Giap hadn't found him...perhaps things would've been different for the U.S. in Vietnam, I don't know.

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    The Art of war seems to me personally to be a little too theoretical and geared to inexperienced generals. The best thing it contains is that some things you must learn in the field and not from others. It also seems to lack that 'espirit' ,realisssimo,clarity and depth psychology contained in the Prince. Clausewitz too suffers from the same faults as Sun Tzu. Although saying that,Machiavelli is not an expert on the technical side of war,more a master in the psychology of power politics.
    The Prince has still not been surpassed or even approached by any writer on power politics,including Herr Nietzsche.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theunderground View Post
    The Art of war seems to me personally to be a little too theoretical and geared to inexperienced generals. The best thing it contains is that some things you must learn in the field and not from others. It also seems to lack that 'espirit' ,realisssimo,clarity and depth psychology contained in the Prince. Clausewitz too suffers from the same faults as Sun Tzu. Although saying that,Machiavelli is not an expert on the technical side of war,more a master in the psychology of power politics.
    The Prince has still not been surpassed or even approached by any writer on power politics,including Herr Nietzsche.
    You have got to be the most experienced general in this forum. Reveal your knowledge. Come to the foreground with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafolini View Post
    Totally disagree with this. Machiavelli has been fully overcome, except in the mongering objectivism of the dynamic museum of history.
    {edit}

    What is this mongering objectivism? Have you coined this phrase?
    Last edited by Scheherazade; 10-10-2011 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Personal comments

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    Quote Originally Posted by osho View Post
    {edit}

    What is this mongering objectivism? Have you coined this phrase?
    Aren't all phrases coined? Do you think they are dropped by birds? I really don't know if I said it for the first time. Chances are low, since I'm not Adam, not even Richelieu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafolini View Post
    Aren't all phrases coined? Do you think they are dropped by birds? I really don't know if I said it for the first time. Chances are low, since I'm not Adam, not even Richelieu.
    I am speechless! You sound satirically appealing though a little enigmatic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by osho View Post
    I am speechless! You sound satirically appealing though a little enigmatic.
    I like your style. When it comes to satire, probably we are both gold medalists, I think. So much for some thought. I think that if we are to disagree it would be about solutions and the inertia of civilization. To me that's a minor case compared to what can be achieved with dialogue about immediacy. Meantime, we might beat Voltaire. Who knows?

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    Machiavelli is a founder of a school of political thought usually termed "realism," and it has been a dominant theory in the realm of international relations. As to his advice for the individual leadership of nations, it no longer works because of the rise of liberalism and decentralization of political power. Also, Kant's democratic peace theory hasn't really failed, except for small spats, which would run counter to the beliefs of Machiavelli.

    I also think there are more important political philosophy books than The Prince. While the prince tells you how the individual can rule other individuals. I find books like Mill's On Liberty, which tell us how we as people should limit the power of those leading us, are equally important.
    "If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
    - Margaret Atwood

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    'General Reader' to you 'cappucino cafolini'...

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