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Thread: Let's Invent Scottish 'History'

  1. #1
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    Let's Invent Scottish 'History'

    LET’S INVENT SCOTTISH HISTORY

    Today, when Scotsmen gather together to celebrate their national identity, they tend to assert it openly by certain distinctive things. (With a few exceptions. Of whom I am happy to be one). They wear the kilt, for example, woven in a ‘tartan’ whose colour and pattern indicates their clan, and, as likely as not, there is the playing of bagpipes. It's good fun. In limited quantities. But both things, which are often said to be of great antiquity, are, in fact, of fairly modern invention. Developed after, in fact, union with England in the 17th century (sometimes long after). And, although there really was some effort to promote this ‘Scottish’ image of kilted, ancient bagpipe playing Highlanders before union with England it was laughed at by most Scots and was never representative of antiquity. It was a form of propaganda coming from elite estate holders who had their own cultural and other interests. As we will see.

    It was not until around 1771 when Edward Gibbon (famous for writing his multi volumed ‘Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire’) made the mistake of promoting a work by two Scottish writers (James Macpherson and John of the same family) - their ‘Introduction to the History of Great Britain and Ireland’ (1771) which caused the legends of ancient highland Scottish clans to be widely accepted by the aristocrats of Europe. It took a full century of honest research to clear Scottish history of these Macpherson fabrications. But the Macphersons in that time succeeded in putting the imaginary ancient Highland Scots on the cultural map. To create the typically romantic image with which we are all familiar. Aided by sympathetic and encouraging applause from chattering women of high status in the fashion salons of Paris such as Madame de Stael. With the now ‘ancient Scottish highlander’ culture seen as heroic and even said to be superior ( according to men such as F.A. Wolf of Germany) to that of Homer’s ancient Greece. Great stuff for the emerging Scottish tourist industry, you may agree !

    In 1805 Sir Walter Scott, keen to build on these fictions, wrote an article for the ‘Edinburgh Review’ saying that the ancient Scots had, during the 3rd century worn a ‘tartan philibeg’. Although nobody had ever said so before. He produced no evidence then and nobody has since that time. (Not even the notorious Macphersons). But by that time it was already fashionable to be a supporter of this romantic idea of the Stuarts being the ‘real’ancient kings of Britain. (They, the Stuarts, were in fact an 18th century attempt to revive Celtic and even Etruscan ideas of feudalism. Which had certainly had impact on Britain in the centuries before the Christian Era. Conveniently hidden by the fact that they, the promoters of this Scottish tartan fashion were also loyal members of the Church of Rome).

    So, how did the‘kilt’ come to be universally known as the ancient national dress of the Scottish highlanders ?

    Well, as early as the 16th century various kinds of tartan cloth were already being imported in to Scotland - not from Britain but actually from Flanders and Holland. It was 200 years later when the kilt was invented as a traditional Highland dress. After 1707, in fact.

    This modern origin of the kilt was first admitted to in 1768 by various writers but news of its recent arrival was only widely published in 1785. When, significantly, nobody at that time protested or disagreed with such facts. Nor did anyone defend the idea of ancient Scottish clans in family tartans. It was widely recognised to be a modern fiction. And, at the time of the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745 (with ‘Bonnie Prince Charlie’) the tartans being associated with the influential families involved were themselves a clever fiction. Tartan was at that time only a fashion garment that was being sold in some cities for some estate workers and their managers. A sort of company costume. Our idea that entire towns and their inhabitants of Highland Scots had always been identified down the centuries by wearing a particular tartan was (and is) sheer fiction. Although the formation of the Highland Society (1788) did even more to spread the myth of ancient tartans.

    King George 4th’s Royal Visit to Edinburgh in 1822 cost lots of money and almost bankrupted his patrons in Scotland over the course of his stay. That event is largely responsible for the fashion for Highland ’clan’ tartans which we know today. The farce reached epic size that year when the King on his arrival toasted the ‘chieftains and clans of Scotland’ since those feudal estate holders had assembled there having earlier ordered any tartan for them to wear that was available. Claiming later to be owners of that same design for many centuries. Although, in fact, the first time they had seen it was when it was ordered from the cloth merchants ! Commerce doing the rest.

    The manipulation of highland clan culture by Charles Edward Stuart (whose later supporters included many aristocrats and estate holders of the nobility in Scotland) is among the most laughable chapters of Scottish History. So-called. The invention, in fact, of ‘history’.

    I can’t end without mention of the Sobieski Stuarts (men who, embarrassingly, produced evidence on their arrival in Scotland in the mid 19th century of being descended from Charles Edward Stuart and a Polish King of the Holy Roman Empire) but betrayed the fact that the real sponsors of Charles Edward Stuart were vested interests protected within the status quo of a Catholic Europe whose ancestors had little to do with Christianity (Roman or otherwise). The Sobieski’s published a book on the alleged ancient tartans of Scotland in 1846. Which was instantly rejected by anyone interested in historical reality. Theirs was a determined attempt to revive not only an imagined ancient Highland costume but also an imaginary and ancient Highland civilization that owes more in fact to Assyria, Babylon and ancient Greece than anything else. Paganism, in fact, hidden within the Stuart legend. Since the hierarchical control of nations is precisely what the Stuart and Sobieski myths were invented to achieve. And they did so. In Scotland.

    But don’t tell the children !


    //

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    Ben JiggeryPokery

    All nations invent themselves and re-invent themselves. The 19th Century romanticisation of the Highland Scot was a European wide phenomenon. Interesting though that what you think of as invention often turns out to be true: Medieval stories about the origins of Scotland, as delivered for instance to the Papacy during Edward 1's attempts to prove historical hegemony over Scotland, have recently been re-examined. The idea that the Scots historically originated from the middle east (via Egypt and Troy) which were rubbished for centuries have been given new validity in a recent book by Alastair Moffat examining gene patterns in both places.

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    Captain Azure Patrick_Bateman's Avatar
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    Kilts originated in Ireland. And it has been around from at least the 16th century

    this thread is gash
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    One man's gash

    Na Irish nationalists nicked the kilt as a symbol of gaelic nationalism in the late 19th early 20th centuries. You're maybe mistaking the lein croich, a long tunic, which the Irish are depicted as wearing in earlier times, for a kilt. No comparison really.

    Your response, sir, was gash.

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    Hi there Hallaig,

    Yes, you are right. The actual evidence suggests this island of Britain had waves of eastern immigrants arriving here from around the time of the ancient Phonenicians. That is, from around 1200 BC onwards. Who displaced any indigenous inhabitants and set up their own regimes. The so-called Celtic culture (which we are taught is indigenous to Europe) is actually not so. It came with them. (The Celtic inscriptions of Europe are amazingly similar to those of the Etruscans although the academic world studiously ignores the relationship between the two). The Etruscan culture of southern Europe (via Greece and other places) was the forerunner of the Roman Empire. Those eastern people had started to migrate westwards over centuries with the expansion of the empire of ancient Assyria, in fact. (Especially in the period 824 to 625 BC). As we see in the map below. And expanded westwards over centuries. Taking over in those centuries almost all of ancient Palestine and all of Egypt before moving to Greece and ancient Europe. Incorporating the belief systems of those pagan nations as they did so. The Vikings were, ancestrally, from ancient Babylon and Assyria. Having already incorporated in to their structures the cults of the ancient pagan east.

    The idea of 'ancient Scottish tribes and particular tartans' dating back many centuries was really part of a revival of occultism and fraternity myth that was popular during the 18th century - of which Freemasonry (itself a revival of earlier pagan mystery cults) were protected within the structures of a largely Roman Catholic Europe. But Rome (especially the Holy Roman Empire) and its elites had been largely patronising the mystery cults of the ancient East ever since the late 4th century. At the highest levels. Further revived in the 'renaissance' (lit. the 'rebirth') of pagan ideas and pagan religion.

    I agree with Alastair Moffat and others. The Scots (such as we know of them) definitely came from the East. Some say they were Scythians. Others say they were pagans associated with the Khazars. The question is whether there were already indigenous men and women here at the time of their earliest arrival. I think there were. And it that's correct our 'history' is largely artificial and has been written by the status quo.

    Here is a remarkable map of the Assyrian expansion westwards in the period 824-625 BC.

    Regards


    http://www.mediafire.com/i/?p4ku4mt8n094lt8


    Quote Originally Posted by hallaig View Post
    All nations invent themselves and re-invent themselves. The 19th Century romanticisation of the Highland Scot was a European wide phenomenon. Interesting though that what you think of as invention often turns out to be true: Medieval stories about the origins of Scotland, as delivered for instance to the Papacy during Edward 1's attempts to prove historical hegemony over Scotland, have recently been re-examined. The idea that the Scots historically originated from the middle east (via Egypt and Troy) which were rubbished for centuries have been given new validity in a recent book by Alastair Moffat examining gene patterns in both places.
    Last edited by Musicology; 05-24-2011 at 07:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musicology View Post
    ...our 'history' is largely artificial and has been written by the status quo.
    This is true of all history. That, in fact, is pretty much what history is. The assertion is so truistic it's a bit pointless. It's oddly adolescent to be so exercised by it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musicology View Post
    Hi there Hallaig,

    Yes, you are right. The actual evidence suggests this island of Britain had waves of eastern immigrants arriving here from around the time of the ancient Phonenicians. That is, from around 1200 BC onwards. Who displaced any indigenous inhabitants and set up their own regimes. The so-called Celtic culture (which we are taught is indigenous to Europe) is actually not so. It came with them. (The Celtic inscriptions of Europe are amazingly similar to those of the Etruscans although the academic world studiously ignores the relationship between the two). The Etruscan culture of southern Europe (via Greece and other places) was the forerunner of the Roman Empire. Those eastern people had started to migrate westwards over centuries with the expansion of the empire of ancient Assyria, in fact. (Especially in the period 824 to 625 BC). As we see in the map below. And expanded westwards over centuries. Taking over in those centuries almost all of ancient Palestine and all of Egypt before moving to Greece and ancient Europe. Incorporating the belief systems of those pagan nations as they did so. The Vikings were, ancestrally, from ancient Babylon and Assyria. Having already incorporated in to their structures the cults of the ancient pagan east.
    I think you've been drinking or something Music, cause you seem to pull this out of your ***.

    It is impossible that there was a large scale migration from Assyria through to Western Europe. The genetic haplotypes do not match up. The predominant haplotypes of Europe are of Caucasus origin, likely brought into Europe after the domestication of the horse caused massive spread of Steppes culture Westward around 3000-5000 BCE. This is why light coloured eyes, which also originated in the Caucasus, are most common in Europe and Central Russia.

    The languages of Northern and Western Europe are either Indo-European or indigenous with strong Indo-European influence from Steppes culture. If Assyrians had spread their culture so far, we would see Semitic linguistic influences.
    Last edited by OrphanPip; 05-24-2011 at 08:17 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanPip View Post
    I think you've been drinking or something Music, cause you seem to pull this out of your ***.

    It is impossible that there was a large scale migration from Assyria through to Western Europe. The genetic haplotypes do not match up. The predominant haplotypes of Europe are of Caucasus origin, likely brought into Europe after the domestication of the horse caused massive spread of Steppes culture Westward around 3000-5000 BCE. This is why light coloured eyes, which also originated in the Caucasus, are most common in Europe and Central Russia.

    The languages of Northern and Western Europe are either Indo-European or indigenous with strong Indo-European influence from Steppes culture. If Assyrians had spread their culture so far, we would see Semitic linguistic influences.
    He'll have an explanation for that. Even if it's only 'LOL'.

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    Captain Azure Patrick_Bateman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallaig View Post
    Na Irish nationalists nicked the kilt as a symbol of gaelic nationalism in the late 19th early 20th centuries. You're maybe mistaking the lein croich, a long tunic, which the Irish are depicted as wearing in earlier times, for a kilt. No comparison really.

    Your response, sir, was gash.
    I'd expect that response from a jock
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    OrphanPip,

    What is 'impossible' ? The facts are as follows. The Assyrian Empire (which emerged from that of Babylonia) expanded massively westwards in the period between 824 and 625 BC. That's a basic fact of ancient history. Isn't it ? Ask anyone who has ever read ancient history. Its expansion included most of what is today known as Palestine, but it also included ALL of ancient Egypt. That's quite an expansion, isn't it ? These westward moving pagans took on elements of the religions of the conquered nations into its pantheon. Including those of pagan Palestine and of Egypt. That too is a plain, indisputable fact. Anyone who reads the subject already knows this. It's indisputable fact. But check it for yourself. Why not ?

    These same peoples continued their westward migration even further west over the next centuries. Into Greece, Scandinavia and western Europe. In fact, they had been preceded by others in earlier centuries from the mercantile, slave running Empire of the Phoenicians. This too is a plain fact of history. Don't you know this ? The Phoenician links with southern Britain and Ireland are a plain fact. Nobody disputes this also. It too is plain, documented history. The Etruscan culture (out of which the Roman Empire grew) came from that mass immigration in to southern continental Europe. You know this already, don't you . That too is a plain and indisputable fact. So, you see, I am not presenting a case on any lack of evidence but upon real, actual, verifiable facts of history. These are large westward moving acts of immigration. Over many centuries of the pre-Christian era. The Etruscan culture indisputably had links to that of ancient pagan Greece and also to the earlier pagan cultures of further east. That too is a plain, indisputable fact.

    The 'Celtic' culture has its real origins in these eastern peoples. It was not indigenous. Consider that. That too is a plain, indisputable fact. But few know this. Let me just give you one of dozens of actual, documentary evidences in full support of this fact. In two volumes - (if that is enough for you ?)

    ''Etruria Celtica'' (2 volumes)
    Sir William Betham (1842)

    Betham was a man who studied the Celtic inscriptions of Europe extensively for many years AND also those of the Etruscans and also those of early Roman civilization. Argue with him ! He said (and I quote) -

    'The Etruscans and the Iberno Celtic are both shown to have come from the ancient Phoenician'

    And that's not all. He presents two entire volumes of documentary, verifiable, actual, evidence.

    If you wish to prove this wrong you have surely to start with some appreciation of the actual, published, verifiable evidence. And not, as your last post, a total lack of any evidence. How about that, as a start ? Then we can have a fair conversation. The invention of Scottish history in the 18th century was a modern revival of pagan mystery cults. Who date back to those Celtic times. These are plain facts. Not opinions. You will read them, won't you ? Just ask and I will send you these on PDF. Form your own view.

    Thank You


    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanPip View Post
    I think you've been drinking or something Music, cause you seem to pull this out of your ***.

    It is impossible that there was a large scale migration from Assyria through to Western Europe. The genetic haplotypes do not match up. The predominant haplotypes of Europe are of Caucasus origin, likely brought into Europe after the domestication of the horse caused massive spread of Steppes culture Westward around 3000-5000 BCE. This is why light coloured eyes, which also originated in the Caucasus, are most common in Europe and Central Russia.

    The languages of Northern and Western Europe are either Indo-European or indigenous with strong Indo-European influence from Steppes culture. If Assyrians had spread their culture so far, we would see Semitic linguistic influences.
    Last edited by Musicology; 05-24-2011 at 10:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_Bateman View Post
    I'd expect that response from a jock
    hmmm such erudition, such rapier like response. Just what you'd expect from an .....eejit?
    Last edited by hallaig; 05-24-2011 at 10:30 AM.

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    LOL

    Well said Hallaig !!

    Quote Originally Posted by hallaig View Post
    hmmm such erudition, such rapier like response. Just what you'd expect from an .....eejit?

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    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Is this another 'let's be controversial for the sake of it thread' or a genuine attempt to discuss an historical period? If the former, then it's best ignored, if the latter, it will have limited input because it's unlikely that many people will have an interest in something as esoteric as Scottish history. There is much more mileage to had in the 'Did Shakespeare write the plays?' controversy and it is more relevant to a forum dealing principally with literature.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

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    The history 'they' don't want us to know.

    'Etruria Celtica'

    Etruscan Language and Antiquities Investigated
    (The Language of the Ancient and Illustrious People Compared and Identified
    With the Iberno Celtic - And both of them shown to be Phoenician)

    Sir William Betham
    1842

    Volume 1

    http://www.mediafire.com/?jddx791bvo9ozrr
    Last edited by Musicology; 05-24-2011 at 10:54 AM.

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    Let me guess, the Assyrians moved all westward as they conquered. And, hold one, the peoples who lived on the land they had conquered, all moved...? westward (of course!). And what or who, pray, came in the place of the Assyrian mother land and its population? After all, there were no Assyrians left as they all moved westward, right?



    Of course the kilt was a 19th century invention, at least in its modern form and the clan-tartan was that too, I believe. An early 19th century Romantic-inspired English invention which was nice and cosy. Partly the great Sir Walter Scott contributed to it, and it culminated in the building of Balmoral by Victoria, with its dark and tartaned carpets, curtains and rigid highland discipline, which Diana hated so much and which prince Charles allegedly revels in.

    Do we really need someone to point this out? We do read books, you know.
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