Russian Literature vs. The World.

[stlukesguild]

I've noticed oppression, though obviously unacceptable, has more often yielded the unparalleled art and expression that we hold highest. Its no secret that the Russians (though perhaps not Tolstoy specifically) haven't had the greatest of histories.

Hence, "I know why the caged bird sings."

There often is this illusion... perhaps due to the romantic notion that an artist must suffer to create an art of depth... but just how much truth is there to it? Looking at this century we discover how the Soviets and the Nazis effectively destroyed artistic cultures that were flourishing prior to their seizing power. The arts in Classical Greece, Rome, Renaissance Italy, 19th century France and England, etc... were born in wealthy, powerful nations where the arts were supported and valued. No culture is without censorship... whether explicit (imposed by church and state) or implicit (implied by self-appointed moral critics and the economy). But wealth and power and support for the arts should not be confused with liberal politics, peace and harmony:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cydkTy6GmFA

[Paulclem]

I don't see any link between Napoleon and the Barbarosa launch. Napoleon was a French shot. The Roman Catholics were probably getting ready to coronate Hitler as the new Charlemagne (the third Reich). In order to do it they made themselves independent from Rome and used Mussolini for controlling the internal italy and link with Hitler, while they restablished the Carlos V empire in Spain as National Catholicism, later used by Franco to direct the civil war. It is erroneous to think that Hitler was an atheist. According to him he was actually doing the work God demanded from him and said it several times very clearly. For his cooperation, Franco was to receive dominion over colonies in Africa among which was Gibraltar. But as the Roman Catholics saw that Hitler was going to lose, Franco exited the deal in a meeting with Hitler in Hendaya, saying that Spain would support him morally, but it was too weak financially to cooperate with military efforts (the original deal). To accomodate themselves to the new situation, the Roman Catholics also claimed that the Nazis had gotten upset and bombed The Vatican, of which there is no evidence. Meantime, Mussolini was allowed to continue, unaware of the loss. Eventually he and his girlfriend realized and tried to escape, but were captured by partisans, taken to Milan, executed, and exposed in the streets as enemies of the Roman Catholic church.

I'm merely referring to the link between the respective invasions of Russia by napoleon in 1812 and the Nazis with their Barborossa campaign. that's the lnk.

[mande2013]

Within France, Balzac is generally considered 'numero uno' among their literary giants, at least when it comes to prose. But then again, maybe I just watch too much French New Wave cinema. Either way, Balzac always comes before Hugo among French intellectuals, but oddly enough, the former seems somewhat neglected in the Anglosphere. Stendhal/Balzac/Flaubert is the nineteenth century narrative fiction triumvirate coupled with Baudelaire/Rimbaud/Verlaine as the poetry triumvirate. Zola, Hugo, and Dumas are respected, but they're generally placed on a second rung, at least in France it seems.

[Pen Name]

The original questioner pondered why Russian Literature was so prominent in the world.

The reason why most great Literature comes about, is usually that there is a swirl of literary activity in that location, Homer in Greece, Cervantes in Spain, Shakespeare in England, they were not in vacuums there was a lively literature around, but also they wrote prose that bordered on poetry, but also played with the words and strove to write well in a natural way.

Hence the disappearance of D.H. Lawrence versus Norman Douglas from the forums, they wrote pretentious claptrap.

A lot of the so called greats of Literature from any Country would be edited by today’s publishers, Frankenstein, Crime and Punishment could both benefit from the editors blue pencil, and I suspect many of you have thought that bit could be cut or shortened from even your favourite read, Homer and Shakespeare are about the only two I have read that could not do with some decent editing.

Also the themes of stories read by an International audience are usually International, and the stories are always about subjects that touch us in some way.

Agatha Christie, not great Literature, set in rural England, someone gets murdered in an English country house. Nothing International there I hear you say, most people do not live in large houses, however we live in neighbourhoods, and know a limited number of people, we gossip, and have a limited amount of philosophical views on the world, but like puzzles simply put.

Guess what most of Chrisite’s stories contain those elements and appeal to millions and are competently written so hence sell millions.

Crime and Punishment ponders the philosophy of a murderer, written well and has a good plot, although rather long it touches the soul and gives the reader things to think about as they go along.

That is what tends to bind all good writing.

I would agree that Russia does not have more than British Isles or France and Germany, but it certainly has more than most of the World. Great Literature thrives in good schooling, hence why USA has a lot of Literature from the late 19th & 20th Centuries.

Russia was late in getting widespread Education, which is why it suddenly blossomed when it did.

[JCamilo]

The reason why Shakespeare and Homer would not need any editing (sic!) is because they are heavily edited already.

[mal4mac]

Within France, Balzac is generally considered 'numero uno' among their literary giants, at least when it comes to prose. But then again, maybe I just watch too much French New Wave cinema. Either way, Balzac always comes before Hugo among French intellectuals...

There isn't a "standout Frenchman", as there is standout author, or two, in Greece, Spain, Germany, England, and Russia. I've just read "Old Man Goriot", reckoned by many to be Balzac's best novel, and, although I found it an excellent novel, I don't rate it above the best of Stendahl, Zola, Flaubert... And do any French authors compare to Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Goethe, Nietzsche, Homer, Plato, Shakespeare, Dickens, or Cervantes?

[mal4mac]

... the Nazis effectively destroyed artistic cultures that were flourishing prior to their seizing power.

I disagree. They certainly didn't destroy Karajan, or Thomas Mann, just two examples amongst many. Artistic culture continued to function very well... through "keeping ones head down" or "absconding". Who was better than Mann or Karajan in the stable democracies?

[phoenixtears]

When comparing worldwide literature, how do you take into account the difference in languages. Because surely a translated version can't be as good as the original, especially in the case of poetry. I personally believe poetry cannot be translated.

[Emil Miller]

I disagree. They certainly didn't destroy Karajan, or Thomas Mann, just two examples amongst many. Artistic culture continued to function very well... through "keeping ones head down" or "absconding". Who was better than Mann or Karajan in the stable democracies?

While I agree that National Socialism didn't destroy artistic culture in Germany, Herbert von Karajan and Thomas Mann are not ideal exemplars of the fact. Karajan was a noted supporter of the party and Mann left Germany and took American citizenship when Hitler became German chancellor . He would most likely have been imprisoned if not executed for his not completely covert homosexuality and he was married to a Jewess; on both counts that made him a highly suspect individual as far as the party was concerned.

[cafolini]

What do you mean when you say that the Nazi's did not destroy artistic culture in Germany. Don't be ridiculous. What was Degenerate Art? How many fell under that idiotic spell promoted originally by Plato?

[JCamilo]

There isn't a "standout Frenchman", as there is standout author, or two, in Greece, Spain, Germany, England, and Russia. I've just read "Old Man Goriot", reckoned by many to be Balzac's best novel, and, although I found it an excellent novel, I don't rate it above the best of Stendahl, Zola, Flaubert... And do any French authors compare to Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Goethe, Nietzsche, Homer, Plato, Shakespeare, Dickens, or Cervantes?

Voltaire, hugo, Balzac, Proust, Baudellaire, rimbaud, verlaine, Montaigne, Flaubert, Maupassant, Racine, Moliere, Rabelais... (Plus, not many people compare to Don Quixote or Homer) There is a reason french and not english replaced Latim among the writers and readers. They did a lot of works, in a lot of areas with imense quality. Only England did as much and for a long as french people and only because the english keep putting down french writers, it appears they have no giants. In terms of novels and romance in XIX they are clearly the masters being copied everywhere and Hugo had a clearly national hero status.

[mande2013]

Voltaire, hugo, Balzac, Proust, Baudellaire, rimbaud, verlaine, Montaigne, Flaubert, Maupassant, Racine, Moliere, Rabelais... (Plus, not many people compare to Don Quixote or Homer) There is a reason french and not english replaced Latim among the writers and readers. They did a lot of works, in a lot of areas with imense quality. Only England did as much and for a long as french people and only because the english keep putting down french writers, it appears they have no giants. In terms of novels and romance in XIX they are clearly the masters being copied everywhere and Hugo had a clearly national hero status.

I was going to say, it seems French literature tends to often be neglected in the Anglosphere in favor of the Russians, which is why it's hard sometimes to come up with a French writer who has the godlike status of Homer, Shakespeare, or even Dostoevsky. The French writers all seem to just blend right into one another, at least in the eyes of most Anglophones. As for Hugo having national herp status, that may have been true at the turn of the twentieth century, but these days Balzac is generally regarded as the superior artist of the two, at least that seems to be the case in France.

In any case, I think part of the Anglo-Saxon distaste for French literature can be attributed to the fact that it often wears its anti-bourgeois sentiments on its sleeve, and 'attacks on the bourgeoisie' don't often go down very well amongst Anglos.

[stlukesguild]

There isn't a "standout Frenchman", as there is standout author, or two, in Greece, Spain, Germany, England, and Russia. I've just read "Old Man Goriot", reckoned by many to be Balzac's best novel, and, although I found it an excellent novel, I don't rate it above the best of Stendahl, Zola, Flaubert... And do any French authors compare to Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Goethe, Nietzsche, Homer, Plato, Shakespeare, Dickens, or Cervantes?

Victor Hugo, Michel de Montaigne, Charles Baudelaire, and Proust... and undoubtedly mortal terror would add Racine.

[OrphanPip]

In any case, I think part of the Anglo-Saxon distaste for French literature can be attributed to the fact that it often wears its anti-bourgeois sentiments on its sleeve, and 'attacks on the bourgeoisie' don't often go down very well amongst Anglos.

I don't think there is a distaste for French literature in the English speaking world. French literature is by far the most frequently translated into English. Apart from a selection of 5-6 Russian authors, most Russian literature does not even get translated into English. In contrast, most of the major French classics from the middle ages to the present have been translated into English. The USA in particular has a long tradition of francophilia that continues well into the 21st century, which is evident in the ongoing obsession with French intellectuals in American academia.

I'd even go further to suggest that the average English speaker is far more likely to be familiar with The Hunchback, Candide, Cyrano de Bergerac, Charles Perrault's fairy tales, or The Little Prince than any of the Russian classics (other than the fact that War and Peace is quite long).

[hawthorns]

There isn't a "standout Frenchman", as there is standout author, or two, in Greece, Spain, Germany, England, and Russia. I've just read "Old Man Goriot", reckoned by many to be Balzac's best novel, and, although I found it an excellent novel, I don't rate it above the best of Stendahl, Zola, Flaubert... And do any French authors compare to Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Goethe, Nietzsche, Homer, Plato, Shakespeare, Dickens, or Cervantes?

First...

Second...Yes, many.