Mozart, 'Genius' and Exam Fakery (1770)

[yanni]

I didn't need to, my timeline suffices, thanks!

Yanni,

So glad you have managed to read the article -

'The Two Antifonas'
Luca Bianchini (2011)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ra13vd5202p5lbz

[Musicology]

Yanni doesn't need to read the subject of this thread. His ''timeline'' suffices. LOL !! Go to the bottom of the class Yanni.

Message to Yanni -

This thread is on ''Mozart, ''Genius'' and Exam Fakery''' (1770). Please read it before you post here. Or people will start to think you are rather silly. We may send you home for being disruptive. Again.

End of Message

Thank You

I didn't need to, my timeline suffices, thanks!

[LitNetIsGreat]

If you wish to know the reality of Mozart's career, and wish to know what the actual evidence is, you should read the above article. And others like it. If not, you will consume more mythology, lies, and wholesale misinformation. Brought to you by 'experts' you have never once cross-examined. 200 years of fiction, in fact.

Do yourself a favour. Get a list of 'Mozart's' musical works (chronologically) and you might learn something. It's the pagan pantheon served up in the name of culture, education and history (so-called). And every body of academic study stands or falls by whether it can survive cross-examination. Right ?

I will get around to reading the link sometime. I tried it before and it didn't work. However, I have yet to get through some of your other threads first, such as:

(The now infamous) The Manufacture of Mozart thread
The fraudulent life of Albert Einstein [?]
The Earth is Fixed in Space []
The truth of climate change
Remarkable ideas of the Earth/Sun relationship []
AND
Various political conspiracy theory threads...

There's no discounting your obvious enthusiasm for music, but...I can't help thinking that there is a strong theme of conspiracy running through some of this, somehow? I'm desperately in wait of the "I Saw Elvis" thread and frankly disappointed in its absence!

All the best,

Neely.

[Lokasenna]

(The now infamous) The Manufacture of Mozart thread
The fraudulent life of Albert Einstein [?]
The Earth is Fixed in Space []
The truth of climate change
Remarkable ideas of the Earth/Sun relationship []
AND
Various political conspiracy theory threads...

Don't forget about the Chemtrails thread - that was one of my favourites!

The link in the OP doesn't work for me either, but I suspect that is my University's server blocking it. I'm enjoying the disscussion though - and listening to some Mozart while I do it.

Anyway, so what if Mozart cheated on an exam? I know plenty of people who have cheated on tests and exams who go on to be extremely competent in that area. One moment of cheating can hardly invalidate a whole career or skill-set.

[Emil Miller]

I'm desperately in wait of the "I Saw Elvis" thread and frankly disappointed in its absence!

All the best,

Neely.

I doubt if Musiclogy would have noticed Elvis even if he saw him, After all, whether we agree with his Mozart theory or not, he is talking about music.
Something which Elvis Presley knew nothing about.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Don't forget about the Chemtrails thread - that was one of my favourites!

Indeed!!

I doubt if Musiclogy would have noticed Elvis even if he saw him, After all, whether we agree with his Mozart theory or not, he is talking about music.
Something which Elvis Presley knew nothing about.

I'm not picking on the fellow, I'm just being playful. However the merits, or non-merits, of Elvis Presley aside, you have to ask how much this is talking about music and how much it is just raising nonsensical stuff for the sake of it?

Edit: Sorry, but I can't resist posting this, so apt!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q04_C...eature=related

[Emil Miller]

Indeed!!



I'm not picking on the fellow, I'm just being playful. However the merits, or non-merits, of Elvis Presley aside, you have to ask how much this is talking about music and how much it is just raising nonsensical stuff for the sake of it?

Edit: Sorry, but I can't resist posting this, so apt!!!

I agree that the protracted correspondence on Mozart has gone on far too long and it should have been carried out under the Private Post facility.
As for the video, I think a paraphrasing of Shakespeare just about sums it
up:

It is a noise
Made by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

The amazing thing is that what came after was worse.

[yanni]

Here, Robert, another Koch for you:

27 June 1770 Rome: LEOPOLD MOZART TO HIS WIFE IN SALZBURG We arrived here in Rome at 8 o`clock yesterday evening by mail coach, taking 27 hours for a journey that took 4 and a half days by vitturino [1] . But we really flew. Count Kaunitz didn`t arrive until today: I thought it would be better if we travelled on our own as it`s not always possible to find enough horses at the post-stages, in which case we`d have had the honour of spending half a day at the post-stage waiting for the horses to return, all the more so in that I knew that His Excellency General Koch was leaving for Rome with 5 horses and a certain Englishman with 7. And so we left Naples on our own and I told everyone we met that I was the steward of the imperial ambassador, because the stewards of such gentlemen are held in high regard hereabouts. This not only made my journey safer, but I was also given good horses and prompt service, while in Rome I didn`t need to go to the Customs House to have our things examined. Instead I was received at the gate with a deep bow and simply told to drive on… http://letters.mozartways.com



Questions for all true musicologists to answer:

What was 'His Excellency General Koch' doing in Naples and Rome, alongside Kaunitz, at the time?
Who was he?
How did he relate to the Mozarts?
Who was the 'certain engishman'?

For advanced students only:

How do they all link to Wolfgang-Amadeus's 'padre Martini' and, in particular, to 'abbe Galiani'? Who were these expert musiciens-opera composers?

7 juillet 1770 Abbé Galliani (from Naples?) à Madame d'Epinay: Je crois vous avoir écrit que ce petit Mozart est ici, et qu'il est moins miracle, quoi qu'il soit toujours le meme miracle, mais il ne sera jamais qu'un miracle. Et c'est tout… Adieu encore. Je vous embrasse, en dépit du scandale de Panurge et de tous les envieux de notre tendre correspondance .

Yanni doesn't need to read the subject of this thread. His ''timeline'' suffices. LOL !! Go to the bottom of the class Yanni.

Message to Yanni -

This thread is on ''Mozart, ''Genius'' and Exam Fakery''' (1770). Please read it before you post here. Or people will start to think you are rather silly. We may send you home for being disruptive. Again.

End of Message

Thank You

[Musicology]

Yanni,

The Grimm/d'Epinay relationship was vital in the bogus 'Enlightenment' philosophy which they managed from Paris from the early 1750's. See also the relationship between Casanova/d'Epinay. You should examine the close relationship of Grimm to the court of Saxe Gotha. And the role of the Russians in Enlightenment ideas after 1762.

As for the letter of 1770 it is clearly a joke between the sender and the reader on the 'miracle' of Mozart who must always be a 'miracle' whenever he is mentioned. That is clearly stated.

The Englishman you wish to identify is probably George Nassau Clavering (1738-89) then Resident in Florence. Later made a Baron of the Holy Roman Empire and a vital contact between the British Empire and the Holy Roman Empire in matters of culture, art and music. And, as for the stage managed progress of the secularisation of society, it involved, of course Benjamin Franklin, elites of Britain and of continental Europe). In a huge revival of pagan religion and philosophy which became, eventually, globalism.

[Musicology]

Lokasenna,.

'So what if Mozart cheated on his exam', you ask. LOL !!! Well, it is one of literally HUNDREDS of examples of musical fakery in the life, career and supposed achievements of the icon. One of the earliest. But nobody is going to dumb down your academic achievements, right ?

The only one who has been cheated on is yourself. With you as a consumer of fables/ fictions by the bucketload on a giant musical fraud - which you are very happy to be. Mozart, whose iconic status literally dominates your cultural and musical education (so-called) on 18th century musical achievement. Now it's surely my turn to ask you as a consumer of Mozartean myth, 'So what' ??? That's a question only you can answer. Have another beer and watch the movie. It is of no relevance to you.

As for chemtrails, I will resist posting some of the latest filmed evidence of them. These too have no relevance to you and you are again struggling to accept the plain fact of them. Speaking of chemtrails here is not really a good idea. Unless your mis-education forces you, of course ! You raise them on a thread dealing with Mozart. Now, these are the fruits of your excellent education, for sure ! Have another beer.

Don't forget about the Chemtrails thread - that was one of my favourites!

The link in the OP doesn't work for me either, but I suspect that is my University's server blocking it. I'm enjoying the disscussion though - and listening to some Mozart while I do it.

Anyway, so what if Mozart cheated on an exam? I know plenty of people who have cheated on tests and exams who go on to be extremely competent in that area. One moment of cheating can hardly invalidate a whole career or skill-set.

[Musicology]

You are so right Brian.

What further proof do we need of the fake career of W.A. Mozart than this clearly documented but virtually unknown example from hundreds in his bogus career ? The music exam he took in 1770 in Bologna. Little more needs to be said on that subject - does it ? - which is the subject of this thread. As we both agree. Why, the musicologists are queing up to refute its contents. (LOL) !!

I congratulate you for being able to read the article, the most clearly documented and well researched example of fakery in western classical music. Speaks volumes for your fairness.

And you really deserve to read other threads. By way of recovery. Since there is so much more of the same kind.

But let's not talk of Shakespeare, whose authorship of plays is itself a matter that has been debunked for almost 200 years itself. As you know. Mozart really was the Shakespeare of music, as we all know.

Textbooks and expert musicologists would never lie to us. Politicians, bankers, broadcasters and everyone else. But not them. Would they ? I mean, what is the world coming to ? lol

We await their comments on -

'The Two Antifonas'
Luca Bianchini (2011)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ra13vd5202p5lbz

And a dozen of the same kind which followed. For starters. How is that for proof that cross-examination still exists in our academic world ?

I agree that the protracted correspondence on Mozart has gone on far too long and it should have been carried out under the Private Post facility.
As for the video, I think a paraphrasing of Shakespeare just about sums it
up:

It is a noise
Made by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

The amazing thing is that what came after was worse.

[Musicology]

You are so right Neely. On threads that relate to a detailed expose on a highly specific subject ('Mozat, ''Genius', and Exam Fakery 1770) we can and must talk of Elvis Presley. There's no business like show business !!!

Now, where are those 'experts' when you need them ?????

LOL !!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPyYofkXXoE

Indeed!!



I'm not picking on the fellow, I'm just being playful. However the merits, or non-merits, of Elvis Presley aside, you have to ask how much this is talking about music and how much it is just raising nonsensical stuff for the sake of it?

Edit: Sorry, but I can't resist posting this, so apt!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q04_C...eature=related

[Lokasenna]

'So what if Mozart cheated on his exam', you ask. LOL !!!

LOL indeed.

Well, it is one of literally HUNDREDS of examples of musical fakery in the life, career and supposed achievements of the icon.

Is it really? I'm rather fond of conspiracy theories (from a spectator perspective), but I have to admit that so far you are the only person I've encountered peddling this one about Mozart.

One of the earliest.

Alas, I still am unable to make the link work, riveting though I'm sure it is.

But nobody is going to dumb down your academic achievements, right ?

Well, I certainly hope not. But then, unlike Mozart, I copyright all my published work. Hmm, I can see it now: "the great Lokasenna fakery - he didn't actually write all those dull articles about Vikings! It was actually a secret collective conspiracy of the 21st century's greatest authors, who just thought it'd be good for a laugh! LOL!"

The only one who has been cheated on is yourself.

And the vast number of other people who appreciate the genius of Mozart, apparently.

With you as a consumer of fables/ fictions by the bucketload on a giant musical fraud - which you are very happy to be.

You are calling cynical old me a consumer of fables and fictions? I have three words for you: pot, kettle, black.

Mozart, whose iconic status literally dominates your cultural and musical education (so-called) on 18th century musical achievement.

Well, there's also Beethoven and Haydn - unless they were in on 'it' as well? Mozart is a major figure, but the 18th century is hardly his alone.

Now it's surely my turn to ask you as a consumer of Mozartean myth, 'So what' ??? That's a question only you can answer.

I'm not sure I can answer it, I'm afraid. I think the quality of Mozart's music speaks for itself - a composer of exceptional ability. If not composed by Mozart himself, then who else was around at that time that had such capability?

Have another beer and watch the movie.

Actually, I think I'll have another cup of tea. Hmm, a movie sounds good as well...

It is of no relevance to you.

Probably, but I'm a talkative soul.

As for chemtrails, I will resist posting some of the latest filmed evidence of them.

A fact for which we are all indebted to you.

These too have no relevance to you

Yep.

and you are again struggling to accept the plain fact of them.

Nope.

Speaking of chemtrails here is not really a good idea.

Yep.

Unless your mis-education forces you, of course !

Nope.

You raise them on a thread dealing with Mozart.

I was merely directing Neely to a debate I thought he might enjoy. You should take it as a compliment that your threads are considered so entertaining.

Now, these are the fruits of your excellent education, for sure !

I'm so glad you think my education is excellent!

Have another beer.

A third cup of tea is on the way!

[Musicology]

Lokasenna,

You are 'rather fond of conspiracy theories' ? For their own sake. I am sorry I cannot help with your conspiracy theories. They are established facts. While you were sleeping they have been proved. To anyone willing to examine the evidence. Including yourself. All we have are plain facts. Products of examining the evidence. In more detail than anyone else to date. And which nobody has freely shared with you. Till now. And when you are presented with these documentary, plain facts on a highly specific and important case you reply with the masterful answer of, 'So what' ??? LOL !!! This is your attitude so far !! Your education (so-called) causes you to say this. What does this attitude of yours tell us about this subject which we do not already know ? And what does it say of the state of your education ? Nothing worth knowing. And you haven't even read it !!!! I mean - LOL !!! Shall we describe this as an example of a dumbed down student struggling to open a PDF ?

You certainly deserve and will no doubt receive a round of applause from those as educated as yourself. Having said nothing you do seem destined for high position, for sure. LOL !! (It is called the 'Peter Principle' of promoting to a position of complete incompetence). Check it out !

I am 'peddling' nothing. I am presenting and freely sharing (and so are others) documentary, indisputable evidence. Of a kind which, so far, has been simply ignored or trivialised. For over 200 years. And you seem unable to handle this fact. Here is the link again (for the 4th time on this thread). It is working perfectly fine. Are you ready ?

http://www.mediafire.com/?y6x6caeo2a84yfj

You are, you say, appreciating the musical 'genius' of Mozart. What 'genius' are you actually talking about ? His ability to fake music exams at the age of 14 ? Which is really the subject of this thread. That takes real musical genius, doesn't it ? Do please answer with some evidence. Then we can profit from your post. Is that so hard? Who were his music teachers ? When did he learn to pass the music exam he faked in Bologna in 1770 ? Why do your biographies and textbooks conceal these facts ? Can you please tell us ? Who taught Mozart the equivalent of flying a jet airliner (the writing of symphonies, concertos and masses) ? Silence. As usual. Since his father was not trained in music also. Unless you show us differently, of course. And Wolfgang never went to school in his entire lifetime. Not a single day ! If you can show us differently, please do. (That question is years old and maybe you, Lokasenna can finally answer it ?). The word 'genius' is itself an 18th century invention. Don't you know that ? And who wrote the 'Mozart' music before and in the years after that Bologna exam ? Want some more articles on that ???

You refer to the 'vast number of people who appreciate the genius of Mozart'. How many of them have the remotest idea of the actual details of his life and career ? From which source have they 'learned' of it ? How many have fairly examined the evidence ? Other than what they have read in nonsense publications and see in popularised eulogies in films ? At the expense of the lives and careers of hundreds, no, thousands of composers whose names (let alone music) are completely unknown to them !! What sort of education is that ? Really ? It is not only ignorance but wilful ignorance, isn't it ??

Why not do yourself a favour ? Read the article. If you don't understand it take it to someone who does. And wait for their verdict. Does it get more simple ? I mean, can I make it more simple ? You do like reality, don't you ?

The 'quality of Mozart's music speaks for itself' ? Really ? Would you care to give us some examples of it so we can see its origins, its history and its publication dates ? Do these matter ?? The 'quality of Mozart's music' is precisely what we are examining here in this article on Bologna 1770. Why not read it ? There are dozens of other cases we can provide.

Here is a horse.
Here is a river
(The river contains lots of water)

Question - Now that the horse has been led to the water can it be forced to drink it ? I think we know the answer. But hey, don't get sidetracked from the subject of this thread, will you ? And where are those experts when we need them ?

LOL

[yanni]

But it was padre Martini, not Galiani, who helped Mozart before Naples and later on in his Bologna exams...

The englishman is propably C.Burney and....

....you failed to comment on His Excellency General Koch-inline with the re Mozart site who go as far as not including him in their alphabetical names list.

Saint Germain was also there (Naples-Venice) at the time (June-July 1770).

How can explain to your readers who and why "manufactured" Mozart in the particular year without a detailed 1770 timeline that includes all involved (Tanucci and Kaunitz too) as well as major relative political events?

Eversince 1767 Naples had banned the Jesuits.

Ta-ta!

Yanni,

As for the letter of 1770 it is clearly a joke between the sender and the reader on the 'miracle' of Mozart who must always be a 'miracle' whenever he is mentioned. That is clearly stated.

The Englishman you wish to identify is probably George Nassau Clavering (1738-89) then Resident in Florence.