Incestuous undertones in The Metamorphosis?

[kelby_lake]

Does Gregor's relationship with his sister have undertones? There's parts on page 36 that seem like they might indicate that.

[Virgil]

Does Gregor's relationship with his sister have undertones? There's parts on page 36 that seem like they might indicate that.

No I don't think so. He's close to his sister but not in that way. Where do you see anything suggesting sexual?

We just read this for the Short Story club reading here last month I think. You might want to go to the thread and see what people had to say on the story in general.

[kelby_lake]

No I don't think so. He's close to his sister but not in that way. Where do you see anything suggesting sexual?

"He would never again let her out of his room...he would be at all the doors of his room at the same time and hiss at spit at the agressors; his sister, however, should not be forced to stay with him but would do so of her own free will... [then he imagines telling her about his dream to send her to the Conservatory] After this declaration his sister would burst into tears of emotion, and Gregor would raise himself up to her shoulder and kiss her on the neck..."

I think the suggestion is that the incest is a brief fantasy, probably linked to his masochism.

[Virgil]

"He would never again let her out of his room...he would be at all the doors of his room at the same time and hiss at spit at the agressors; his sister, however, should not be forced to stay with him but would do so of her own free will... [then he imagines telling her about his dream to send her to the Conservatory] After this declaration his sister would burst into tears of emotion, and Gregor would raise himself up to her shoulder and kiss her on the neck..."

I think the suggestion is that the incest is a brief fantasy, probably linked to his masochism.

The only part of that that might be construed as sexual is the kiss on the neck. And I still think it's innocent enough. There's nothing else in the story that would corroborate an incestual feelings. Unless I missed it. For a theme to exist it can't just be one vague mention. It has to be fleshed out, no pun intended.

[kelby_lake]

Apparantly one critic says Gregor's a masochist and the passage is basically a fantasy he can torture himself with.

Also, is the fact that Gregor liked milk important? Does milk symbolise something?

[Virgil]

Apparantly one critic says Gregor's a masochist and the passage is basically a fantasy he can torture himself with.

Also, is the fact that Gregor liked milk important? Does milk symbolise something?

I didn't take the milk as a symbol of anything. It's something one would naturally give to a pet. There's something to the masochist theory. There seems to be a suggestion of that. I still don't think that passage is a incestuous fantasy. I take it as Gregor as feeling vulnerable and the only person he feels he can depend on is his sister. That's why it's so ironic when she insitgates getting rid of him. The person he most depended on turns on him.

[Kyriakos]

Whether or not it was consciously meant as incestuous (i doubt it was) it has to be said that Kafka does give the impression of someone who was troubled by quilt, which could have had its origins to forgotten incestuous thoughts/actions.

[kelby_lake]

I didn't take the milk as a symbol of anything. It's something one would naturally give to a pet. There's something to the masochist theory. There seems to be a suggestion of that. I still don't think that passage is a incestuous fantasy. I take it as Gregor as feeling vulnerable and the only person he feels he can depend on is his sister. That's why it's so ironic when she insitgates getting rid of him. The person he most depended on turns on him.

It has been re-evaluated by me as non-incestuous but still manipulative and masochistic. Grete is extending her love (or will be) to other blokes, not Gregor.

[Virgil]

Whether or not it was consciously meant as incestuous (i doubt it was) it has to be said that Kafka does give the impression of someone who was troubled by quilt, which could have had its origins to forgotten incestuous thoughts/actions.

Forgotten? I have no idea what you mean.

Should any kiss by a brother to a sister be interpreted as incestuous?

[Kyriakos]

Forgotten? I have no idea what you mean.

Should any kiss by a brother to a sister be interpreted as incestuous?

I mean repressed
And i did not have in mind a kiss, but something a lot more sexual.

It is one theory about the origins of Kafka's infamous self-hatred.

[Virgil]

I mean repressed
And i did not have in mind a kiss, but something a lot more sexual.

It is one theory about the origins of Kafka's infamous self-hatred.

Oh I don't know much about his life. Frankly all those psycho-babble theories are mostly useless.