The Iliad... Reaaaallly?

[Rores28]

So I don't get what the big deal is about this book / epic... I'm halfway through and I'm thoroughly underwhelmed. I think it is good but its falling way short of the expectations I had for it. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Odyssey and pretty much feel the same way though the Odyssey is better.

I also started reading Paradise Lost and would trade the first book from that for the whole of The Odyssey and Iliad. The Iliad just seems like an endless action movie interspersed with a pedigree of the ancient world.

Thoughts.... is its brilliance lost in translation?

[PeterL]

Thoughts.... is its brilliance lost in translation?

Usually brilliance is lost in translation. The Iliad was a a poem that was chanted, ad all of the rhythm and meter are lost. Homer was a blind poet, so he composed in a way that made it easy to keep the poem going.

[blazeofglory]

I have read Milton's Paradise Lost and found it so elegant yet I do not think this book can really allure the modern reader. I read it as a text book or else I would have never read this great classic.Of course I have the Iliad and I have tried to read this several times but I never could have the patience to complete it. I have read a little of it just because I thought I must have the knowledge of classics. It did not thrill me the way a modern novel could and I will not read it again and I feel it is a waste of time to start with an epic of this genre. It transports us to an imagined world far from our realities. I do not like a world of fantasy.

I have many modern books of fiction and nonfiction and I have no limitless time to read all the garbage that come across me.

If I read anything that is ancient I may read the Mahabharata or the Bible

[Modest Proposal]

Think about the brilliance of Paradise Lost... the complexity, the richness, the beauty... now remember that it was written nearly 400 years ago! Before computers, before type writers, heck before electricity was understood. Amazing huh? That was 400 YEARS ago.






The Iliad was written 2400 years ago...

[dfloyd]

These epic poems must be investigated and understood even before you give your opinions since these are now invalid. Read Robert Graves 'The Greek Myths' and Bulfinch's 'The Age of Fable'. Many poets and artists have celebrated these works in words, Keats in 'On Seeing Chapman's Iliad', and even Salvador Dali in his Helen of Troy series. Read about Schlieman's discovery of Troy in a book called 'Gods, Graves, and Scholars'. Schlieman, a German merchant millionaire, discovered and excavated the site of Troy in the late 19th century, and stole many artifacts and gold jewelry from the site in what is now Turkey. He left his treasures in a museum in Berlin which was ramsacked by the Soviets at the end of WWII. Only recently, these invaluable artifacts have been on display by the Soviets, but they're not giving them back to Germany. Schlieman is often called the father of archeology.

Many have translated these poems in both rhyme and prose. Lawrence of Arabia carried a copy of The Odyssey throughout his WWI adventures and did a prose translation. I prefer the rhyme translations, especially those into English done by the 18th century translator, Alexander Pope.

Finally, it is only valid to criticize these important epics of Greek thought when you have thoroughly investigated them. From these criticisms, it appears you have little understanding of your subject, so nothing you say has validity. They (your opinions) are only those of one or several who have no real understanding of their subject.

[JuniperWoolf]

The reason The Illiad is cool is because it's so damn old. It's the oldest story that we have that's been written in an alphabet (I had a prof who thought that the ancient Greek alphabet was invented in the first place just for the purpose of recording the works of Homer). When you read The Illiad, you're reading the same story and thinking about the same things that people heard and thought about over 2800 years ago, which is pretty neat.

[stlukesguild]

So I don't get what the big deal is about this book / epic... I'm halfway through and I'm thoroughly underwhelmed. I think it is good but its falling way short of the expectations I had for it. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Odyssey and pretty much feel the same way though the Odyssey is better.

And...? The Iliad didn't live up to your expectations? What does that prove? You weren't blown away by an accepted classic the first time you read it? Since when is a first experience of a given work of art the ultimate test of merit? Since when do we judge a work of art according to our preconceived notions/expectations of what we thought it was going to be like or should be like? If The Iliad didn't do it for you, fine. It's not the end of the world. We all have works that are accepted classics that fail to work for us. Just don't confuse your personal experience ("I don't like it") with an objective judgment ("It's not all that good"). You may find that at some later time the work does indeed speak to you... or not.

There is no need to defend The Iliad or The Odyssey, however. Homer's position in literature is pretty well established and assured continued relevance owing to far more the simple fact that they are old. The fact that this or that the works do not resonate with this or that individual is largely irrelevant, and unlikely to undermine the continued stature of the works as "classics" deserving of the title. The tales told resonate throughout literary history... in the works of endless other poets, playwrights, novelists, and writers of nearly every ilk... as do the characters, and the various formal poetic structures.

Again, do not fret your response... move on and continue reading... but be open to returning to the books again with the possibility that your opinions may very much change.

[ladderandbucket]

The Iliad seems unbearably tragic to me. The inanity of such a huge war over one man's pride, the helplessness of Helen before the workings of Aphrodite, the consequences of Achilles' petulance, the Gods' incomprehension of human mortality... I do think it is one of the greatest storys ever and very relevant to our own lives.

The problem with reading the thing is that is is so long and so repetitive. I read the Robert Fagles version which may not be the most accurate translation but is very accessible and a masterpiece in its own right. Some of the writing is so vivid I remember feeling, near the start of the book, that I was was reading something incredible. But the battle scenes are so gruelling, after 50, 100 pages of non stop violence it really becomes mind numbing. A spear through the gut, a fractured skull, another decapitation...yawn...tell me something to get my attention! Perhaps this is the intention - to convey the mindlessness of war, but I think you need a lot of stamina to read it any more than a chapter at a time and retain concentration. I heard the ancient Greeks used to have parties where they would recite it over two days. I can only imagine how tedious that could be.

Like a previous poster said, the more you know of the ancient Greek world the more it will add. There are so many incidental lines which tie it in to the wider corpus of Greek mythology. I am halfway through Robert Graves's Greek Myths. When I'm through with that I will read Sophocles, Aeschylus, Euripides and then reread the Iliad and the Odyssey. I am expecting it to be quite a different experience.

[prendrelemick]

I found the Illiad a "grower" like one of those songs you don't like at first but slowly grows on you until it becomes a favorite.

[JBI]

It reads better out loud. The vision of the words really carries a certain quality that is lost when reading with just the eyes.

[PeterL]

The reason The Illiad is cool is because it's so damn old. It's the oldest story that we have that's been written in an alphabet (I had a prof who thought that the ancient Greek alphabet was invented in the first place just for the purpose of recording the works of Homer). When you read The Illiad, you're reading the same story and thinking about the same things that people heard and thought about over 2800 years ago, which is pretty neat.

The Gilgamesh epic is older; the oldest extant copy was written even before the siege of Troy.

[Rores28]

Think about the brilliance of Paradise Lost... the complexity, the richness, the beauty... now remember that it was written nearly 400 years ago! Before computers, before type writers, heck before electricity was understood. Amazing huh? That was 400 YEARS ago.






The Iliad was written 2400 years ago...

Right and this is sorta what I'm suspecting....that the Iliad is receiving a handicap for being so old. I'm not doubting that it was impressive when composed, or that its an invaluable historical artifact but whether or not something like Paradise Lost or Hamlet was written hundreds of years ago or yesterday they would still be ****ing awesome. I just don't think the same could be said about the Iliad. To me its like comparing the Sistine Chapel to a cave painting.

I found the Illiad a "grower" like one of those songs you don't like at first but slowly grows on you until it becomes a favorite.

This is what I'm hoping... I didn't like Moby Dick till about 3/4 through and then about a month after I was done I loved it.

These epic poems must be investigated and understood even before you give your opinions since these are now invalid. Read Robert Graves 'The Greek Myths' and Bulfinch's 'The Age of Fable'. Many poets and artists have celebrated these works in words, Keats in 'On Seeing Chapman's Iliad', and even Salvador Dali in his Helen of Troy series. Read about Schlieman's discovery of Troy in a book called 'Gods, Graves, and Scholars'. Schlieman, a German merchant millionaire, discovered and excavated the site of Troy in the late 19th century, and stole many artifacts and gold jewelry from the site in what is now Turkey. He left his treasures in a museum in Berlin which was ramsacked by the Soviets at the end of WWII. Only recently, these invaluable artifacts have been on display by the Soviets, but they're not giving them back to Germany. Schlieman is often called the father of archeology.

Many have translated these poems in both rhyme and prose. Lawrence of Arabia carried a copy of The Odyssey throughout his WWI adventures and did a prose translation. I prefer the rhyme translations, especially those into English done by the 18th century translator, Alexander Pope.

Finally, it is only valid to criticize these important epics of Greek thought when you have thoroughly investigated them. From these criticisms, it appears you have little understanding of your subject, so nothing you say has validity. They (your opinions) are only those of one or several who have no real understanding of their subject.

The problem is I do have a fair deal of background knowledge. I've listened to various college level lecture series on these subjects and while it adds to the historical mystique I can't say it alleviates the sea of drudgery that is, as pointed out by another poster, spear through the head, crushed hip bone, Bob the father of Rob son of Gill who had the sister Ariel daughter or Lilly ad infinitum / nauseum. Once again I think it is good, just not outstanding. Maybe Homer should have had a better editor. I think the problem was my expectations were way way to high when I came into it, plus without Brad Pitt's sexy rendition of Achilles......

[JCamilo]

You do not read the Iliad, you read translations of the Iliad, Homer is lost to us. And yes, it is a selection of battle scenes, Homer basicaly created the hollywood action movie (which made impossible to not laugh of hollywood incapacity to adapt it, I do not believe that crap recent movie can raise the expectation of anyone so high, plus the movie is not an adaptation of Iliad, but of all stories reggarding Troy.).I do not think the background is so relevant either. It is a bit typical of those war epics - a sequence of battles - you may find it in Roland Song for example - the reason? For the same reason people go to football games and sing the same musics - those are poems used to celebrate a war. Soldier Jack can feel much better after a day of battle, relax, hearing Achilles and Hector fighting.
Thus, yes, the first form of poetry was Heavy Metal.

[Rores28]

There is no need to defend The Iliad or The Odyssey, however. Homer's position in literature is pretty well established and assured continued relevance owing to far more the simple fact that they are old. The fact that this or that the works do not resonate with this or that individual is largely irrelevant, and unlikely to undermine the continued stature of the works as "classics" deserving of the title. The tales told resonate throughout literary history... in the works of endless other poets, playwrights, novelists, and writers of nearly every ilk... as do the characters, and the various formal poetic structures.

This was disappointing as well. There are so many references to ancient Greek Literature in works that I do like, that I thought returning to the source would be very rewarding... and it hasn't been so far

I may look into the Pope translation.... I'm jumping between Fitzgerald and Fagles right now.

[Modest Proposal]

Right and this is sorta what I'm suspecting....that the Iliad is receiving a handicap for being so old. I'm not doubting that it was impressive when composed, or that its an invaluable historical artifact but whether or not something like Paradise Lost or Hamlet was written hundreds of years ago or yesterday they would still be ****ing awesome. I just don't think the same could be said about the Iliad. To me its like comparing the Sistine Chapel to a cave painting.

No. Sorry. 'The Iliad' doesn't receive a "handicap" for being old. I was merely pointing out ONE of the aspects of its capacity to astonish. No one would say that Milton's audacity in Paradise Lost is merely impressive because it was one of the first of its kind. It's the genius that it takes to do something so incredible with little precedent combined with the innate genius of the thing itself that astonishes us. As I'm sure others were going to point out what I would call the "innate genius" of 'The Iliad' I was merely going to supplement it with a historicity that I find continually inspiring.

Also, I was hoping that you could try and expand your expectations. It is easy growing up in a purely western tradition of painting--though to be perfectly honest, this is misleading--to miss a different tradition of, say, Japanese painting with very different forms and modes. Observing the project, the expectations, the affect and the general context of 'The Iliad', it is a strange thing to say something like "I can't believe no one ever noticed that this isn't as exciting as Chuck Palahniuk!"(not that you were). This second aspect of my original post was trying to point out that since your tastes are in many ways constructed by the world you live in, it will take some personal work to try and see what it is so many of these authors you presumably respect saw in Homer.