Is God a projection of our thoughts only?

[Paulclem]

good!

you might be interested in knowing about the edicts of Ashoka, here's the link

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html

Thanks - I'll take a look.

[blazeofglory]

I have read different opinions centering on God, religions, religious tolerance, and intolerance. But what astounded me immensely is the religious bigotries people most loved to arm themselves with. Different posters here have their own god or gods. All are OK, good people, tolerant, not bigots at all. But when the issue of religions touches them they become shaken to the very root. I infer from this – humans without religious prejudices in their real states are good people irrespective of where doe she belong religiously, culturally, geographically. It is their conditioned mind, thus the religious mind that creates the problem. That created wars, holocausts. That fragmented humanity. That is divisive. That leads us off course.

[Leland Gaunt]

That created wars, holocausts. That fragmented humanity. That is divisive. That leads us off course.

I don't think that religion has created too many wars, resource competition and a fair amount of greed/ambition are your real culprits. Religion can be used to justify it to those not in the know. With holocausts, I can definitely see where your coming from. Was humanity ever not fragmented? It is certainly divisive, but not inherently so. Out of curiosity, what is the course?

[dafydd manton]

Wars not caused by religion? Small mattre of WW2, and the Nazi agression against Judaism? The continuing battles in England between Catholic and Protestant? The wars between England and Wales, or Scotland? The Troubles in Ireland? The continuing punch -up between Islam and The Rest? Priests preaching young men in to the trenches of WW1? Holy Wars all over the place? Crusades? The Israelite Wars? I'm not convinced, I'm afraid.

[The Atheist]

Wars not caused by religion? Small mattre of WW2, and the Nazi agression against Judaism? The continuing battles in England between Catholic and Protestant? The wars between England and Wales, or Scotland? The Troubles in Ireland? The continuing punch -up between Islam and The Rest? Priests preaching young men in to the trenches of WW1? Holy Wars all over the place? Crusades? The Israelite Wars? I'm not convinced, I'm afraid.

Beat me to it, although I disagree on WWII - I don't believe religion played a big part in the cause of the war.

I think the best current example is the Shi'ite/Sunni conflict which has only been going on for 800 years or so. Same god, same religion even, same murderous resentment on both sides. The ongoing sectarian violence in Iraq is a stunning display of how internecine hatred is greater than hatred of the alleged "enemy/invader".

[dafydd manton]

Seems to be brewing up in Ireland again, at least in the NAME of their respective religions. The WW2 thing, probably the main reason why it all kept going, although I take your point about the cause. Well Done The Churches, Well Done the Religious Leaders who bleat on about "Peace".

[mazHur]

Wars have their own 'political' and other reasons; religions get involved when wars touch the followers or the interests of the followers of those religions. During Wars, religions are exploited to give moral and spiritual boost to its followers against their enemies....and to establish a 'good cause' for fighting in some cases.

Look at the policy of Nasir of Turkey who retracted from 'expansionism' and 'settled' the Cyprus problem so that Turkey could manage it own territories without interfering in other people's business. WWI began when murder of a dignitary was committed by Bosnian's; WWII was not against Jews but a War for dominance...Christians had their own reasons for acting against Jews..Roosevelt had its own reasons when he disallowed Jews from entering America...there was NO terrorist act committed by a Muslim in the 19 the century,Why?? and all know that it all began after 9/11 ....Why?? It's an open book!

So, it cannot be said that religion only is the cause of all bloodshed...there are many other underlying reasons for wars.

[dafydd manton]

Oh, I don't think any of us are sufficiently short-sighted to say that it is the only cause, but merely that it is a major one. Even if it isn't it's perceived by the vast majority to be, which is every bit as relevant.

[Manalive]

Yes, and full marks for the RCC in not trying to preach the impossible, but it's not the only church around and many of the other ones are biblical literalists, so it can't be said that Catholics are necessarily right. (Except when it's said by Catholics, of course.)

Christ promised two things to the Church: that he would be with it always and that the gates of hell would not prevail upon it. He gave Peter and the other Apostles the "keys to the kingdom" and "what is bound on earth would be bound in heaven" by the the Apostles and their successors. Every other church that does not have valid Apostolic succession are capable of making Biblical errors when they translate scripture. The Catholic Church is the only one that is able to safely translate scripture because it was set up by Christ. The fact that Christ set up one Church and there are others out there with multiple opinions on scripture and theology testifies to the error of "sola scriptura" and the Protestant beliefs.

Let me make it plain then.

If my best friend just happens to rule the universe, which it also created, why would I let one unbeliever bother me?

If you genuinely believe in the omnipotent sky-daddy, how does one man's opinion hurt? If I were deluded enough to believe the Jesus myth, I'd be laughing at atheists, not debating them. What on earth could an atheist say to upset a true believer?

The conundrum is to do with heaven. I suspect that the vast majority of believers actually haven't a clue what heaven is supposed to be - since none of them have ever been there - and have never bothered to think about all the logical contradictions.

A bit of arrogance there my friend? My soul is not bothered by you, only concerned. I like to laugh and debate. Sometimes at the same time.

Anyone that tells you what heaven is like is purely speculative. I fully expect to be enrolled in the School of Athens and taking notes from Plato up there.

I see you quote Vatican II, so I'm guessing you must be somewhat aware of the history of the RCC. I listed a few of its points that need work, and taking other nice bits of its history into account - the Borgias and Inquisition, for instance - you must realise that it has changed its ways lots of times over the centuries.

Don't forget the Crusades!

The Church has been around for a long time. When I signed up I never thought it was perfect throughout it's history. Christ founded his Church upon sinners.

You're looking through modern lenses when you look back at history. The right to kill an unborn in an abortion is considered a "choice" these days. That is a modern view. To Medieval peoples killing infidels and heretics was their duty to protect their children. A lot of what you hear about the Inquisition is from Protestant or anti-Catholic propaganda. I largely believe that the trails were fairer than they are made out to be these days.

It has changed. But not it's moral or theological beliefs.

Nice of you to avoid the main part of that point - the informed cover-ups perpetrated by senior members of the RCC.

Your main point was that the Catholic Church was responsible for repulsive evil throughout its history. I responded to that. But if you wish for a specific response to that: I acknowledge it. It's shameful and it should not have happened.

WWJD? Or more pertinently, what would Jesus have done?

Do you honestly think the son of the god-chappie would have joined the Hitler Youth?

According to every christian theologian on the planet, Jesus would have died before he put on the brown uniform. This is the bloke who took whips to the blokes in the temple, right? I just cannot see Jesus giving a Sieg Heil salute and worshipping Uncle Adolf.

What's good for the god's good for a pope, in my view. The pope is apparently able to talk one on one with the god on rare occasions.

Oh yeah, of course, he's probably very sorry and asked forgiveness.

What mountain did you descend off and what dirt did Benedict rise from?

The Pope was forced into conscription; it's not like he was the first guy around to sign up. This is the stuff I like to laugh at. Your attempting to oversimplify this for the sake of your argument and it doesn't work. Your making accusations to get a response out of me, I hope. Otherwise you fit into that category of loonies that believe every conspiracy out there.

So, you agree with me that churches are evil organisations run by madmen?

"Following that logic and your belief" is what I said. It's not my belief.

[mazHur]

Beat me to it, although I disagree on WWII - I don't believe religion played a big part in the cause of the war.

I think the best current example is the Shi'ite/Sunni conflict which has only been going on for 800 years or so. Same god, same religion even, same murderous resentment on both sides. The ongoing sectarian violence in Iraq is a stunning display of how internecine hatred is greater than hatred of the alleged "enemy/invader".

Perhaps you are not aware of the fact that the Sunnis and Shias constitute two largest sects of Muslims, with most of the Muslim countries belonging to the former sect while Iran being the principle 'capital' of Shiite Muslims.
Shiites have many relics and holy places in Iraq and ofcourse they also constitute almost half of Iraq's population. Iraq had been an all-time Sunni state and the Shiites backed by Iran now cash this opportunity given by the war to set up a Shiite rule in Iraq , hence all the killing you find there. It's more a game of power and dominance of one over the other obviously at the behest of some 'unseen hands' ...

Likewise Pakistan is also a Sunni state with less than 6 per cent Shiites yet there is strong hatred against them by certain sub-sects of Sunnis..(shiites are also sub divided into many sub sects!!) So, you can see what goes between Sunnis and Shiites is religious differences between the same people same as between Catholics and Protestants. They are not warring, they are killing each other!! Reason: because followers of one sect don't believe the doctrines of the other sect...and vice versa. I don't think the previous 10 year War between Iran and Iraq rested on religious reasons,,,it was for 'political' ambitions!

In Afghanistan ( and Pakistan) Muslims are killing Muslims...regardless of their sects....because the 'terrorists' believe those killed are not co-operating with them or are not with their cause and instead are supporting or co-operating with the invaders and their allies! This is what they think.... we as traitors who aren't supporting them!! This leaves us between the devil and the deep sea! And now the scourge of God.....floods causing huge devastation in Pakistan!!

[Scheherazade]

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Since this thread does not serve its original purpose anymore, it will now be closed.

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