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Thread: The theory of Evolution! (simple)

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    The theory of Evolution! (simple)

    The basic idea behind the theory of evolution is that all the different species have evolved from simple life forms, these simple life forms first developed more than 3 billion years ago (the earth is 4.5 billion years old).

    The fundamental theory behind evolution is that it happens because of Natural Selection (survival of the fittest). Natural Selection is basically when certain individuals in a species adapt to be suited to their environment, which means they are more likely to survive and reproduce (have children). These individuals in a species show a wide range of variation (differences), this variation is because of a difference in genes. These different genes are basically mutations, for example in Xmen (a popular film franchise) the mutants have different genes to humans and therefore have 'powers', these 'powers' make them stronger than normal humans. The genes that allow this certain group of individuals to survive are passed down to their offspring (children). The individuals that don't adapt to their environment are less likely to survive and reproduce, meaning that the evolved individuals will become the dominant ones in that species.

    (Note: If there is anything you would like me to add or change please do say so, and if you want more info on evolution I advise you to read Charles Darwin's, The Origin of Species or look up evolution online. Also some of this information is not mine as I did use a few websites as a reference. Finally if you're wondering why i decided to write about the theory of evolution it is because I did it today in class and it really interested me so I decided to share it with you guys! )
    Last edited by AaronP; 06-07-2015 at 03:43 PM.

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    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    Either you don't understand evolution, Aaron, or you are not explaining it well. Individuals can "adapt to their environments", but they cannot do so genetically, because once they are born, their genetic makeup is fixed. So you, for example, can adapt to your environment by getting an education, working out in a gym, or improving your hand-eye coordination by playing video games. None of these adaptations, however, will alter your genetic makeup, nor will they be passed on to your children genetically.

    Your genetic makeup is determined at birth. For one-celled animals that reproduce through cell division, genetic variation occurs only through mutations. Without mutations, the cells divide into genetic replicas of themselves. In the case of sexual reproduction, genetic variation exists with or without mutations. Although mutations occur, and are important to evolution, the genetic variation inherent in all sexual reproduction can lead some individuals to be more likely to reproduce, and others to be less likely. The individuals do not "adapt" genetically -- but the species does when more children are born with particular genes than with others.

    Modern Evolutionary theory recognizes that the gene, not the individual, is the unit that is passed on unchanged from one generation to the next. Since you share (on average) 50% of your genes with your siblings, your siblings' reproductive success is also important in passing your genes to the next generation. A person who has no children, but whose siblings have 8 children is more "successful" in terms of spreading his genes than the one who has two children, but whose siblings have none (everything else being equal).

    The important point, however, is that although individuals can adapt to their environment, such adaptations do not affect their genetic makeup. The notion that individuals can pass adaptations they make during their lifetime on to their children is associated with Lemarckism, a theory of evolution that competed with Darwinian evolution and has been abandoned. Also, Darwin was unaware of genetics (although, of course, he knew that animals could inherit traits from their parents) so his Theory has "evolved" dramatically since his time.

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    Registered User Clopin's Avatar
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    You know what I never understood about evolution? Okay so presumably birds that fly evolved from dinosaurs, and presumably the way evolution works is through the natural selection of advantageous traits through random mutation, but isn't flight sort of all or nothing? I mean what advantage did the dinosaurs with half a wing and too much bone density to take off have over their non winged counterparts.

    This keeps bothering me.
    So with the courage of a clown, or a cur, or a kite jerkin tight at it's tether

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    Registered User Iain Sparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clopin View Post
    You know what I never understood about evolution? Okay so presumably birds that fly evolved from dinosaurs, and presumably the way evolution works is through the natural selection of advantageous traits through random mutation, but isn't flight sort of all or nothing? I mean what advantage did the dinosaurs with half a wing and too much bone density to take off have over their non winged counterparts.

    This keeps bothering me.
    It will bother you no more... a Roadrunner gets along just fine, as a ground bird.

    Some recent fossils found in China suggest these intermediary creatures (between reptiles and birds), were quite successful, and btw, survived for millions of years. And feathers provide great insulation when it's cold, and are easy to keep cool when it's hot.

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    Registered User Clopin's Avatar
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    Well no, it's the flight itself that does bother me. Did one day a dinosaur flap its wings which had been pointlessly evolving (along with everything else needed to fly) for millions and millions of years only to discover "hey I can fly"?
    So with the courage of a clown, or a cur, or a kite jerkin tight at it's tether

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    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    The problem you are referring to, Clopin, is called the problem of "irreducible complexity", and it's an issue evolutionary science has been dealing with for years. Flight is not generally the biggest problem: we all know that flying squirrels and flying snakes can glide -- and so over millions of years, it's possible to see how flight evolved. More problematic issues in "irreducible complexity" involve the development of the eye (and vision) and the development of sexual reproduction. I don't have time to look up anything about these issues (and I don't know any answers off the top of my head) -- but if you google "irreducible complexity" you will probably come up with some answers (or at least a discussion of the subject).

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    Registered User Clopin's Avatar
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    The answer to dinosaurs growing wings is supposedly that they started jumping and the ones with half wings (or one one thousandth of wings I guess) were more efficient at it until they learned to fly.

    I know that reproduction is difficult to reconcile with evolution from single celled organisms because two different and complimentary reproductive systems had to evolve at the same time randomly and randomly work together to produce offspring, instead of just through cell mitosis. Generally when something (you mentioned sight) is an all or nothing, either it works or it doesn't, proposition, I find it hard to see the evolutionary explanation for how it came about, but obviously I'm no biologist.
    Last edited by Clopin; 06-05-2015 at 12:56 PM.
    So with the courage of a clown, or a cur, or a kite jerkin tight at it's tether

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    Queen Victoria was a mutant, but sadly it did not give her superpowers. It just meant that some of her male descendants suffered from haemophilia.
    According to Aldous Huxley, D.H. Lawrence once said that Balzac was 'a gigantic dwarf', and in a sense the same is true of Dickens.
    Charles Dickens, by George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clopin View Post
    The answer to dinosaurs growing wings is supposedly that they started jumping and the ones with half wings (or one one thousandth of wings I guess) were more efficient at it until they learned to fly.

    I know that reproduction is difficult to reconcile with evolution from single celled organisms because two different and complimentary reproductive systems had to evolve at the same time randomly and randomly work together to produce offspring, instead of just through cell mitosis. Generally when something (you mentioned sight) is an all or nothing, either it works or it doesn't, proposition, I find it hard to see the evolutionary explanation for how it came about, but obviously I'm no biologist.
    This is exactly what has always bothered me as well, Clopin. I've never received a really plausible answer other than random mutation. Which isn't really plausible either.

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    Ecurb: I just want to note, in case you missed it before, that Aaron is 14 years old. Given that, his early attempt at understanding evolution is quite admirable.

    That being said, Aaron, Ecurb is a very knowledgable fellow, and you can learn a lot from his critique. Since he has covered all of what I would have cautioned you about in terms of biology, I will just make the stylistic suggestion that you remove the words "basically" and "basic" from your essay. These words are often (as here) unnecessary and make what would otherwise be keen and powerful sentences a bit flabby. Always question these words when you write (unless you are writing dialogue). They are seldom necessary and best avoided.

    Clopin (and Easy): I'm no biologist, either, but I am not as troubled about the evolution of flight as you are. Clearly some transitional forms are missing, but that is to be expected in light of how rarely fossils form. It requires rather precise environmental conditions (usually involving the dead organism being almost immediately covered with some kind of geological matrix), that the fossil be spared destruction in the earth, and that it be found at all--a pretty rare combination when you think about it. Compare the few fossils that make it through that gauntlet to the total number of organisms that have died on the planet and you'll see my point. It's not unusual that many transitional forms would be missing (although we do have some). In fact, it would be expected.

    Okay, but I get it that that is not what you were asking about. It seems to me (in my no doubt naive "science for Classics majors" sort of way) that natural selection could have turned the trick of flight quite handily. Critters scurry after lunch, and those with less dense bones are fast enough to catch it (and the others don't live long enough to reproduce as much). Their descendants keep on scurrying for lunch, and those who leap better catch it. Their descendants scurry after lunch and those with more fluffy scales leap even better, and catch it. Their descendants scurry after lunch, and those whose feathery scaled limbs more facilitate short glides catch it. Their descendants scurry and glide after lunch, and those who can manage a simple form of low flight for very short distances catch it. Their descendants scurry and glide and fly, and those who manage to climb trees and ambush lunch by flying down on it catch it, and avoid predators on the ground to boot. Their ancestors find more stuff to eat, and are safer from predators, and meet a lot more girls by flying from tree to tree. As Woody Allen said of nature, "it's like an enormous restaurant." Maybe a pick up bar is more like it. In any case, it's all based on individual traits among members of a given species. You don't need half wings that don't do anything (although presumably you might find them on birds who have lost the ability to fly because over the eons they found a better way to do business). Now I know it didn't all work exactly like that. The point is that natural selection could have managed the job. It would not have required flight to have been the objective all along.
    Last edited by Pompey Bum; 06-05-2015 at 11:58 PM.

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    Why did you write in such big font? Are you SHOUTING? Fill in the missing words: The dodo, he changed into the ...............

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    Dead duck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clopin View Post
    You know what I never understood about evolution? Okay so presumably birds that fly evolved from dinosaurs, and presumably the way evolution works is through the natural selection of advantageous traits through random mutation, but isn't flight sort of all or nothing? I mean what advantage did the dinosaurs with half a wing and too much bone density to take off have over their non winged counterparts.

    This keeps bothering me.
    There is a lot that bothers me about neo-Darwinism. The way Ecurb describes it is the way I see neo-Darwinism as well. Here are some points that come to mind:

    1) Paleontologists (Eldredge or Gould) note that fossils are laid down in sedimentation layers with breaks between groups of fossils. The actual changes occur over a brief period of time and then they stabilize. Those changes are better described by "punctuated equilibrium" rather than a random mutation process.

    2) The Lamarckian inheritance of acquired characteristics should not be rejected as quickly as neo-Darwinists have done.

    3) The existence of "hypermutation" in E. coli bacteria in the lab puts in question the random mutation process and moves the unit of evolutionary change from the genes within the cell back to groups of individuals at the species level.

    4) After decoding the human genome, one would expect, if the theory were correct, that we would see genetic based cures by now. Rather emphasis seems to have shifted to "epigenetics" which seems to signal a failure of the original genetics approach. This makes me think that there is more going on in species change than genes can account for.

    5) Philosophically, the reductionism of life to an unconscious gene has lead some philosophers of mind such as Thomas Nagel to reject neo-Darwinism. Basically biology needs to account for the awareness of the individual member of any species.

    I think neo-Darwinism reached its peak prior to the decoding of the human genome. After that one is now looking for that research expense to pay off in some practical way.
    Last edited by YesNo; 06-05-2015 at 08:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompey Bum View Post
    Ecurb: I just want to note, in case you missed it before, that Aaron is 14 years old. Given that, his early attempt at understanding evolution is quite admirable.

    That being said, Aaron, Ecurb is a very knowledgable fellow, and you can learn a lot from his critique. Since he has covered all of what I would have cautioned you about in terms of biology, I will just make the stylistic suggestion that you remove the word "basically" and "basic" from your essay. These words are often (as here) unnecessary and make what would otherwise be keen and powerful sentences a bit flabby. Always question these words when you write (unless you are writing dialogue). They are seldom necessary and best avoided.

    Clopin (and Easy): I'm no biologist, either, but I am not as troubled about the evolution of flight as you are. Clearly some transitional forms are missing, but that is to be expected in light of how rarely fossils form. It requires rather precise environmental conditions (usually involving the dead organism being almost immediately covered with some kind of geological matrix), that the fossil be spared destruction in the earth, and that it be found at all--a pretty rare combination when you think about it. Compare the few fossils that make it through that gauntlet to the total number of organisms that have died on the planet and you'll see my point. It's not unusual that many transitional forms would be missing (although we do have some). In fact, it would be expected.

    Okay, but I get it that that is not what you were asking about. It seems to me (in my no doubt naive "science for Classics majors" sort of way) that natural selection could have turned the trick of flight quite handily. Critters scurry after lunch, and those with less dense bones are fast enough to catch it (and the others don't live long enough to reproduce as much). Their descendants keep on scurrying for lunch, and those who leap better catch it. Their descendants scurry after lunch and those with more fluffy scales leap even better, and catch it. Their descendants scurry after lunch, and those whose feathery scaled limbs more facilitate short glides catch it. Their descendants scurry and glide after lunch, and those who can manage a simple form of low flight for very short distances catch it. Their descendants scurry and glide and fly, and those who manage to climb trees and ambush lunch by flying down on it catch it, and avoid predators on the ground to boot. Their ancestors find more stuff to eat, and are safer from predators, and meet a lot more girls by flying from tree to tree. As Woody Allen said of nature, "it's like an enormous restaurant." Maybe a pick up bar is more like it. In any case, it's all based on individual traits among members of a given species. You don't need half wings that don't do anything (although presumably you might find them on birds who have lost the ability to fly because over the eons they found a better way to do business. Now I know it didn't all work exactly like that. The point is that natural selection could have managed the job. It would not have required flight to have been the objective all along.
    Yeah I'm no scientist either, and I'm not really anti-evolution either. I just read a book once and the author was talking about flight and eyes, but he said there are a lot tougher things to be explained. His big issue was blood clotting. He was a biochemist and maintained that at the biochemical level it was impossible for the blood clotting system to have evolved gradually over time. Couldn't quite understand why because me is not smart. Sounded compelling though! I think at the end of the day whether you are a Darwinmacroevolutionist or a Godcreationsevenactualdays person, or even somewhere in between, it takes a lot of faith to truly believe what you believe. Some are just more comfortable admitting it.
    Easy out.

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    Registered User North Star's Avatar
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    On the evolution of blood clotting:

    http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/ev.../Clotting.html

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