View Poll Results: Icebox by Mark Bastable: Final Verdict

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  • * Please don't give up your day job!

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  • *** Keep writing. Practice makes perfect.

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Thread: Icebox by Mark Bastable

  1. #1
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Icebox by Mark Bastable

    Please post your comments on Icebox by Mark Bastable in this thread.

    An introduction by the author himself:
    I wrote Icebox nearly fifteen years ago. It was the second novel that I’d written, and the first to get published – in 1999.

    It’s difficult to introduce it now, because from this distance it appears to me to have separated out into two parts, like salad dressing. I can see the obviously good bits and the obviously not-so-good bits quite distinctly. I need to shake it up in my mind again so that I can see it as a consistent whole.

    So as a few curious Litnetters are reading it, I’ll read it too. I think I know what to expect, but I might be surprised. In either case, I don’t want to prejudice anyone else’s experience by saying what I’d imagine will come over well and what won’t.

    I’ll pass on some factual stuff though, to give it context – although I hope none is necessary. My feeling is that everything a reader needs ought to be there between the covers.

    I wrote Icebox in the evenings when I was working in Amsterdam. I had an apartment overlooking a canal, and I’d sit there at my desk by the window as tourists went past in glass-topped boats outside. They’d wave at me and I’d wave back. I used to wonder whether the guide had incorporated me into his spiel. “On the right we have a typical mediaeval house. Note the stepped gable, the hook at the top for winching furniture into the windows, and, on the second floor, the Englishman with the three-day stubble and two bottles of Pinot.”

    The theme for the book had been percolating in my head for a year or two – which isn’t long, for me. I’d been reading a lot of books about cutting edge science, particularly cryonic suspension. Apparently it’s wildly expensive to have yourself frozen after your death, and that struck me as the ultimate deferred gratification – to work your whole life to earn a longshot at a second one.

    And once I started along that path of speculation, all sorts of questions started to occur to me. What would be your motivation for doing that? How would it influence your behaviour in this life? What would your friends think?

    So this isn’t science fiction. It’s fiction with some science in it. The science is no more the point of the story than the ball is the point of football.

    I’ll be interested to hear what people think, and I’m happy to discuss it. I’m probably more critical of it than most readers, so don’t feel the need to be complimentary– though polite would be nice. I’ll try to answer any question – about the book, the characters, my intentions and approach.

    Thanks for taking the time for this exercise. However you may react to the book, that commitment to reading it is a compliment.
    If you have not already got a copy, it is available on amazon and at (most) UK libraries.
    ~
    "It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
    ~


  2. #2
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    Finished it last night.

    I'll post more when I've had a think. Here are a few first impressions.

    The characters are All extra-ordinary.

    Its full of very English humour - we love a good farce, we love the wry.

    It slowly resolved itself into a page turner.

    It didn't achieve that "suspension of disbelief" it was unashamedly fictional.

    Was it only 15 years ago you could smoke and no one had a mobile.

    Hate the cover - the wife didn't want me to read it in bed because "That thing" was staring at her.

  3. #3
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    I have read only the 1/10 of the book yet but have to agree with:
    Quote Originally Posted by prendrelemick View Post
    Hate the cover - the wife didn't want me to read it in bed because "That thing" was staring at her.
    It feels so "pop"; almost like a movie poster or a DVD cover.

    Has anyone read Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition by Ed Regis, which is mentioned in the "Acknowledgements"? (Thank you, by the way, Mark. Know someone who will love this as a birthday gift! )

    At the moment, I am trying to keep up with "who is who"; it feels a little frantic moving from one scene to the next.

    I like the humour that is peeping here and there as well, prendrelemick.
    ~
    "It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
    ~


  4. #4
    www.markbastable.co.uk
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    Oh, God - there's a poll.

  5. #5
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBastable View Post
    Oh, God - there's a poll.
    Is that a typo? You meant "Oh, good - there's a poll." right?

    And you still haven't voted.


    I now have read 1/3 (at the part where Spleen goes to "Movers and Shakers"):

    1. How did Spleen manage to get in? Thought it was a "members-only" club. Because he is the landlord?

    2. What do you guys think of the name selection? Gabriel, Spleen, Unity etc?

    3. Ironic that Don seems so attached to the past while Unity is longing for the future so desperately .
    ~
    "It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
    ~


  6. #6
    www.markbastable.co.uk
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    I'll talk about any of these points, as directed - but the question of characters' names is particularly worth pursuing, I think, because it's pertinent to the entire question of the choices a writer makes, and the significance of those choices.

    So as soon as I get an hour to myself, I'll come back to that.

  7. #7
    Super papayahed's Avatar
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    I read the first few pages, I missed a few of the references so i decided to stop until I could get near a computer or dictionary. My first impression is that it's very "English".
    Last edited by papayahed; 05-20-2010 at 07:51 PM.
    Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda


  8. #8
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    I must admit, it was only when I read Ellen's surname right at the end, that I realized the names were not just odd but chosen with care.

  9. #9
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Mark> It'd be great to read your comments but please don't feel obliged to either.

    Prendrelemick> Oh, thanks! Now I just want to go to the last page and find out what her surname is... But... must... resist... the temptation...

    Read 2/3 now and finding it hard to put it down; I am like totally hooked!

    - There was a time you could cash more than £250 from ATMs (or is this an indicator of my humble worldly riches?)

    - Did Gabriel change his clothes and clean himself before leaving the hotel? It is surely impossible that he remained spotless after what he did...

    - Initially I was a little put-off by the coincidences but, later on, as they kept happening, I began to enjoy and expect them (look for opportunities for them to happen). They don't seem like a device for author's convenience anymore, somehow.
    ~
    "It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
    ~


  10. #10
    www.markbastable.co.uk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scheherazade View Post
    Mark>

    - Did Gabriel change his clothes and clean himself before leaving the hotel? It is surely impossible that he remained spotless after what he did...

    - Initially I was a little put-off by the coincidences but, later on, as they kept happening, I began to enjoy and expect them (look for opportunities for them to happen). They don't seem like a device for author's convenience anymore, somehow.
    Okay - two more there to address, and I shall.

    Practical detail
    : to what extent should a writer fill in details that would be dull to read if they were there but which will be irritating if they aren't? Constant worry, that - and one that's worth discussing.


    Coincidence in fiction: huge HUGE subject, and one about which I've thought a lot. As a catalyst to discussion, I'll say this...

    Taking issue with Scher, I think there's one coincidence - maybe one and a stretched second - in Icebox. All other comings-together arise from character or from the conventions of fiction. I allow myself two coincidences per novel, and even then only within very strict criteria.

    Which may be a bold assertion. Let's kick the hell out of it
    Last edited by MarkBastable; 05-21-2010 at 02:38 PM.

  11. #11
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scheherazade View Post
    Mark> It'd be great to read your comments but please don't feel obliged to either.

    Prendrelemick> Oh, thanks! Now I just want to go to the last page and find out what her surname is... But... must... resist... the temptation...

    Read 2/3 now and finding it hard to put it down; I am like totally hooked!

    - There was a time you could cash more than £250 from ATMs (or is this an indicator of my humble worldly riches?)

    - Did Gabriel change his clothes and clean himself before leaving the hotel? It is surely impossible that he remained spotless after what he did...

    - Initially I was a little put-off by the coincidences but, later on, as they kept happening, I began to enjoy and expect them (look for opportunities for them to happen). They don't seem like a device for author's convenience anymore, somehow.

    Thats why I called it unashamedly fictional- the coincidences, the names, the end game,(can't say much more about that yet) the 500 pounds from a ATM, even the characters were not quite of the real world, a good thing once you accept it. Allows lots more leeway with the plot.

    I thought the Unity/Rushmore meeting was one of the funniest things I've read in ages.
    Last edited by prendrelemick; 05-21-2010 at 06:02 PM.

  12. #12
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBastable View Post

    Taking issue with Scher
    Gee... Now, that's new...



    Just to clarify... My questions regarding ATM or Gabriel's clothes (also couple of others that came up later on) are not for sake of nitpicking but just random questions that crossed my mind while reading.

    Details> For me, it depends on the issue at hand and how it affects the story's flow and development: ATM does not matter, really; if people could take out £500, that is fine... If not, it is like microphone showing in a movie scene; no harm done as the amount of money he spends does not affect them as such.

    Gabriel cleaning himself matters a little: Did he? How did he manage it between the time Unity called and the police arrived (shouldn't be more than a few minutes)? Since no one comments on any stains later on, this is, in my opinion, a more important detail than ATM.

    Conincidences> Not sure what you mean by "All other comings-together arise from character or from the conventions of fiction." and how these are different from "coincidences": That story line takes characters to a certain place at a certain time and they don't just happen to be there? That there is a justification for them to be there?

    (Sorry; don't speak authorese - just a humble reader).
    Quote Originally Posted by prendrelemick View Post
    a good thing once you accept it.
    Yes and fun; I was trying to guess who might appear where next.
    I thought the Unity/Rushmore meeting was one of the funniest things I've read in ages.
    The second meeting?

    - Any thoughts on the clock outside their office?

    - The scene at the restaurant(s)?

    - Can't help imagining this book as a movie.

    - The ending? I did not expect it to end like this.

    - I have never played "Happy Families" and had to look it up on the internet. And I now know what "insouciance" means.
    ~
    "It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
    ~


  13. #13
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    Both! but the punchline just before the second meeting, must be the longest wait for a punchline in the history of literature.

    (where he remembers being recognised only as the pub singer's brother. I really feel for him at that moment.)


    Practical details matter because it is important to go along with a piece of fiction. Every time something doesn't add up or is wrong, it gives you a jarr, it chips away at the suspension of disbelief, too much and you are back in your room reading a book, rather than in the story.

    It is of course a judgement thing, I also don't want to be bogged down in detail. I understand why authors worry over this.

    As for coincidence in fiction, half the plots ever divised depend on them.
    Last edited by prendrelemick; 05-22-2010 at 04:17 AM.

  14. #14
    www.markbastable.co.uk
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    Gabriel cleaning himself matters a little: Did he? How did he manage it between the time Unity called and the police arrived (shouldn't be more than a few minutes)? Since no one comments on any stains later on, this is, in my opinion, a more important detail than ATM.

    Actually, the change of clothes is mentioned.

  15. #15
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBastable View Post
    Actually, the change of clothes is mentioned.
    Ah, yes:

    Gabriel had walked blindly for half an hour, clutching the canister to his chest, the rain soaking through the clean t-shirt and jeans he had dragged on after hanging up on Unity.

    I stand corrected.
    ~
    "It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
    ~


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