Profanity in Novels

[kelby_lake]

If I think a word fits in a sentence, I am going to use said word. If people are really offended by an instance of swearing in a novel, it's probably because the word wasn't the most appropriate word to use in that sentence. We could say that of pretty much any word that doesn't fit.

As for racial slurs, most of the words are considered as outdated racism, regardless of the context you say them in. Slurs are more offensive than swearing; they are unashamedly nasty behaviour, normally stemming from ignorance.

[prendrelemick]

Well, those of us who advocate swearing in novels have to be careful of finding ourselves in questionable company. There are some really bad writers out there who use profanity all the time - though we'd argue that it's not the profanity that makes the stuff bad.

Then again, those who are against swearing also have to consider who their friends are.

This is my favourite Amazon Reader's Review.

I never heard of this book before our daughter said she had to read it for high school English. As soon as the teacher started reading it in class our daughter said it was dumb, she wanted out of English class ,I want to quit school, and why do I have to listen to my teacher read all this foul language including the F word repeatedly. We said you don't and pulled her from the class. Christian or not if you have any moral compass at all Catcher in the Rye is a book to avoid. The book inspired the murderer of John Lennon. It talks about and seems to condone all sorts of sin,including prostitution. drunkeness, lying,blasphemy, and fornication.It is a very depressing book and is filled with foul language on every page. It doesn't edify or build up the reader to become a better citizen or self governing individual.It makes every attempt to drag you down to its level, the gutter. The Bible says whatsoever things are honest, true, just , pure, lovely, and of good report, if there be any virtue, think on these things . You can't think on these things reading "goddamn "245 times in a 200+ page book. Beware Parents. Don't fall for the line that its on the schools approved reading list or that it is a literary 'classic'. This book is filth ,pure and simple. Its a sad commentary on our times that it is taught in our public schools. I had to give it a one star rating but it really doesn't rate to be opened let alone read.

....do we think she has a point?

Actually I agree with her rating

though not her ranting

[myrna22]

Actually I agree with her rating

though not her ranting

I disagree very much with her rating. Catcher in the Rye has become and will be one of the most important novels ever written not because it titilates with 'bad' language but because it so very much speaks for the adolescent heart and soul.

I really don't even get this discussion, this thread. Language, choice of diction, in literature depends on the needs of the subject. To censure what a character says or how it is said because of the sensibilities of the reader is to not write well, in my opinion.

To put profanity in a work of literature gratuitiously is not good writing. To put profanity in a work of literature because it is the appropriate diction choice is good writing. It is just so obvious, I don't get the point of arguing about it.

[kelby_lake]

Amazon.com reviews are always fun to read. They can give considered opinions on stuff and more people review stuff than on Amazon.co.uk.

Some reviews for Hunchback of Notre Dame (the Disney film):

'I was appalled at this film. The female main character of this story is a gypsy woman, which wouldn't be a problem but given her attire and manner, she acts more like an exotic dancer and is by no means a role-model for little girls. Her dress looks like it will fall off during much of the show and the hunchback has a bunch of stone character friends that come to life. They do one skit where they make a joke of the Catholic pope and the pope figure head pops off. The only good character in the film is the side priest who tries to defend the hunchback in the beginning.

The film is also very long for children and I just thought given the female character manner, it is not proper for children to watch. I don't have problem with most kids films but this one had too many problems in my opinion. Little ones might not get the immoral treatment of the lady in the film but it does stick in memory without realizing it. Kids tend to mimick everything they see at some point and so the reason for my rating.'

And my favourite:
'this is by far the creepiest Disney movie of all time. It is far too sexual and just all around not fun. Esmerelda's dancing is basically a cartoon dancing like a stripper while keeping her clothes on.'

Surely the point of a stripper is that they take their clothes off?

And someone's view of Pinnochio:
'As a child I grew up loving Pinocchio. I loved the story and the movie. But as an adult I have had time to reevaluate this story and it's effect on our children. This movie contains too much violence and way too much fantasy for our children to handle. With all of it's fluff and happy themes, how can you show this to our children when there is so much suffering in the world? I think its grossly unfair to the children of other countries who are dying of starvation or war for our own children to enjoy something so blatently moralizing. I believe that there are some religious undertones in the story as well that should have been kept in check. Please, for our children's sake and future, avoid this harmful film.'

[Aelita]

Originally posted by BienvenuJDC
"I agree with some of the comments here concerning a portrayal of realistic life, in order to show the moral character of the persons or the setting. However, if anyone thinks that the general communication requires the use of profane language, then the intellect of this current society has diminished. I'm not offended by a word every now and again, but there are certainly some words used more than once that will cause me to put a book down and throw the author off my book list. Let us develop our vocabularies elegantly."
If profane words are overused, they don't shock anymore and become the norm. I don't like it. It's leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

[MarkBastable]

If profane words are overused, they don't shock anymore and become the norm. I don't like it. It's leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

You can't have it both ways. If they become the norm, they won't leave a nasty taste in the mouth. Unless you find normality distasteful - in which case presumably you'd prefer the situation in which profanity was used but was not normal.

Me, I don't find them shocking. And frankly I'm surprised that so many people here seem to. I think we should all read less and get out more.

[kelby_lake]

Not everybody uses profanity in order to shock. That's already been done in literature. Read some David Mamet and you'll get over it.

[ForKnowledge]

who gives a ****? people do it it should be in novels good or bad

[stlukesguild]

I disagree very much with her rating. Catcher in the Rye has become and will be one of the most important novels ever written...



Right up there with Harry Potter.

[novelsryou]

Speaking of profanity, I started Tropic Of Cancer and quite frankly I don't get it, maybe I should get a study guide, so I put it down for The Oxford History Of The French Revolution and now I'm bogging down halfway through that in the French revolutionary wars. I was hoping for more Guillotining.

[blp]

I disagree very much with her rating. Catcher in the Rye has become and will be one of the most important novels ever written...



Right up there with Harry Potter.

You're right up there with Harry Potter.

Don't ask me up where.

myrna's right.

[stlukesguild]

You're right up there with Harry Potter.

Don't ask me up where.

myrna's right.

Yep. Catcher in the Rye will rank right alongside The Brothers Karamazov, War and Peace, Les Miserables, Madame Bovary, A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Bead Game, Doctor Faustus, Dangerous Liasons, Love in the Time of Cholera, The Master and Margerita, Invisible Cities, Don Quixote, The Trial, In Search of Lost Time, Ulysses, Tristam Shandy, Jude the Obscure, Moby Dick, Robinson Caruso, The Scarlet Letter, Blood Meridian, As I Lay Dying, Pride and Prejudice, Crime and Punishment, Portrait of a Lady, The Torrents of Spring, Wuthering Heights, etc... at least among semi-literate teenagers and high-school English teachers wanting to insert a little teen-aged angst into the reading.

[mortalterror]

Yep. Catcher in the Rye will rank right alongside The Brothers Karamazov, War and Peace, Les Miserables, Madame Bovary, A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Bead Game, Doctor Faustus, Dangerous Liasons, Love in the Time of Cholera, The Master and Margerita, Invisible Cities, Don Quixote, The Trial, In Search of Lost Time, Ulysses, Tristam Shandy, Jude the Obscure, Moby Dick, Robinson Caruso, The Scarlet Letter, Blood Meridian, As I Lay Dying, Pride and Prejudice, Crime and Punishment, Portrait of a Lady, The Torrents of Spring, Wuthering Heights, etc... at least among semi-literate teenagers and high-school English teachers wanting to insert a little teen-aged angst into the reading.

Some of your suggestions are a little thinner than others. You might have said The Brothers Karamazov, War and Peace, Les Mis, Madame Bovary, and left it at that. The Glass Bead Game? Doctor Faustus? Jude the Obscure? Robinson Caruso? Blood Meridian? Even I don't like The Torrents of Spring!

I'd like to vouch for The Catcher in the Rye, since I believe it's a work of real genius, and just one more of those books you didn't care for and which yet rate serious consideration as novels. Add it to the list with Three Musketeers, On the Road, and 1984.

[blp]

You're right up there with Harry Potter.

Don't ask me up where.

myrna's right.

Yep. Catcher in the Rye will rank right alongside The Brothers Karamazov, War and Peace, Les Miserables, Madame Bovary, A Tale of Two Cities, The Glass Bead Game, Doctor Faustus, Dangerous Liasons, Love in the Time of Cholera, The Master and Margerita, Invisible Cities, Don Quixote, The Trial, In Search of Lost Time, Ulysses, Tristam Shandy, Jude the Obscure, Moby Dick, Robinson Caruso, The Scarlet Letter, Blood Meridian, As I Lay Dying, Pride and Prejudice, Crime and Punishment, Portrait of a Lady, The Torrents of Spring, Wuthering Heights, etc... at least among semi-literate teenagers and high-school English teachers wanting to insert a little teen-aged angst into the reading.

Some of your suggestions are a little thinner than others.

Yeah, you lost me, utterly, at Love in the Time of Cholera.

[stlukesguild]

Some of your suggestions are a little thinner than others. You might have said The Brothers Karamazov, War and Peace, Les Mis, Madame Bovary, and left it at that. The Glass Bead Game? Doctor Faustus? Jude the Obscure? Robinson Caruso? Blood Meridian? Even I don't like The Torrents of Spring!

Hesse? Undoubtedly. He'll certainly outlast Sallinger. DeFoe would seem to go without saying as one of the founders of the English novel. I know we disagree on Blood Meridian. I stand by my judgment that it is one of the best if not THE best American novel of the second half of the 20th century and I'm not alone in that assertion. Not a Turgenev fan?

I'd like to vouch for The Catcher in the Rye, since I believe it's a work of real genius, and just one more of those books you didn't care for and which yet rate serious consideration as novels. Add it to the list with Three Musketeers, On the Road, and 1984.

Personally, I quite liked 1984... but I wouldn't rate it (or Orwell as a whole) anywhere near as high as he seems to be rated among many LitNet members (which seems to be somewhere akin to standing shoulder to shoulder with Shakespeare and Dostoevsky). The Three Musketeers...? Good mindless fun... perhaps even a minor "classic"... but you can't expect a whole lot more from a book written by committee... even if Nerval was one of the ghostwriters involved. Kerouac and Sallinger? The less said, the better.