The puzzle of Beethoven's Kochs!

[Musicology]

Yanni,

If an obscurantist is awarded a Nobel Prize I will write to complain bitterly against that decision - showing by your numerous posts they are ignoring your own prodigious talents in that field.

[yanni]

Your bitterness will go away soon as you taste the prize you rightly won!

It's time you get busy checking and rewriting your http://www.italianopera.org/articoli...CONCERTI.html: Most if not all of your "unknowns" have disappeared (via Carl Ludwig Cocceji-Belderbusch and his absolutely revealing -for me as well-relations to elector Max Frantz among other).

"Carl Luwig Cocceji-Belderbusch" fully explains Beethoven's as well as Luchesi's devotion and indebtness to him eversince Maximilian Friedrich's office as Kurkoeln Elector.

(As Thayer reports) "...he was a good-natured, friendly man who left it to his minister, Kaspar Anton von Belderbusch, to reduce expenses and to turn the Electorate of Cologne into one of Germany's most flourishing states".

Beethoven's grandfather Ludwig was his choice for Kappelmeister in 1761.

Does Cocceji-Belderbusch fit my "all aliases mastertimeline" for the specific year?

With Calzabigi's , Luchesi's, Leopold Mozart's etc, assistance it does, as follows:

1761

Cocchi's Tito Manlio 7.2.1761 London KT

Hennin* a Saint Foix Varsovie, 10th Feb 1761

Februar: Waffenstillstand zwischen Preußen und Russland, im Mai verlängert bis 27. 5.

In February 1761 Ranieri Calzabigi, a friend of the adventurer Giovanni Giacomo Casanova*, visited Vienna. His libretto for Orfeo ed Euridice, partly based on the theories and practices of such literary men as D. Diderot, F.M. von Grimm*, Rousseau*, and Voltaire, was enthusiastically greeted by Gluck’s* friends...

Maximilian Friedrich von Königsegg-Rothenfels,Erzbischof....politisch uninteressiert, ernannte Belderbusch* bereits am 9. Mai 1761 zum Hofkammerpräsidenten

Baron Alexander, (Stroganov)* ….Count of the Holy Roman Empire 29.5.1761,

When the Marquise d’Urfé informed Choiseul of the Count’s (Saint Germain)* presence, he responded, “I am not surprised, because he spent the night in my chamber.” (supposed to have happened in May but is propaby "planted").

September, 1761 One of the two little germans in Diderot’s circle in Paris was Ludwig Heinrich Nicolay*, 1737-1820.

LETTRE DE VOLTAIRE A P. M. HENNIN*. Aa Château de Ferney, a6 octobre 1761

Cocchi's Allessandor nell'Indie (13.10.1761 London KT)

......Calzabigi, a somewhat unknown librettist who advocated the mixing of French and Italian serious opera to make a new genre better than either. Since this was also an idea that interested Durazzo*, he may have been the person who introduced Calzabigi to Gluck*.The two probably worked together on a ballet, Don Juan, which was premiered on October 17, 1761.

(Rousseau*, "secluded" in Montmorency, published his Nouvelle Heloise in 1761 but is otherwise offscreen )

G: Le Cadi dupé (9.12.1761 Wien B) [Der betrogene Kadi]

*Gioachino Cocchi's alias


Best regards.

[Musicology]

Thank you Yanni,

That is interesting. This is more focused, for sure.

Here is a short break. Greetings to the kind and brave people of Greece, who are struggling against the ruthless, corporate, globalist takeover of their nation.

Jim Croce
'Old Man River'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw_jU_WEK60

Your bitterness will go away soon as you taste the prize you rightly won!

It's time you get busy checking and rewriting your http://www.italianopera.org/articoli...CONCERTI.html: Most if not all of your "unknowns" have disappeared (via Carl Ludwig Cocceji-Belderbusch and his absolutely revealing -for me as well-relations to elector Max Frantz among other).

"Carl Luwig Cocceji-Belderbusch" fully explains Beethoven's as well as Luchesi's devotion and indebtness to him eversince Maximilian Friedrich's office as Kurkoeln Elector.

(As Thayer reports) "...he was a good-natured, friendly man who left it to his minister, Kaspar Anton von Belderbusch, to reduce expenses and to turn the Electorate of Cologne into one of Germany's most flourishing states".

Beethoven's grandfather Ludwig was his choice for Kappelmeister in 1761.

Does Cocceji-Belderbusch fit my "all aliases mastertimeline" for the specific year?

With Calzabigi's , Luchesi's, Leopold Mozart's etc, assistance it does, as follows:

1761

Cocchi's Tito Manlio 7.2.1761 London KT

Hennin* a Saint Foix Varsovie, 10th Feb 1761

Februar: Waffenstillstand zwischen Preußen und Russland, im Mai verlängert bis 27. 5.

In February 1761 Ranieri Calzabigi, a friend of the adventurer Giovanni Giacomo Casanova*, visited Vienna. His libretto for Orfeo ed Euridice, partly based on the theories and practices of such literary men as D. Diderot, F.M. von Grimm*, Rousseau*, and Voltaire, was enthusiastically greeted by Gluck’s* friends...

Maximilian Friedrich von Königsegg-Rothenfels,Erzbischof....politisch uninteressiert, ernannte Belderbusch* bereits am 9. Mai 1761 zum Hofkammerpräsidenten

Baron Alexander, (Stroganov)* ….Count of the Holy Roman Empire 29.5.1761,

When the Marquise d’Urfé informed Choiseul of the Count’s (Saint Germain)* presence, he responded, “I am not surprised, because he spent the night in my chamber.” (supposed to have happened in May but is propaby "planted").

September, 1761 One of the two little germans in Diderot’s circle in Paris was Ludwig Heinrich Nicolay*, 1737-1820.

LETTRE DE VOLTAIRE A P. M. HENNIN*. Aa Château de Ferney, a6 octobre 1761

Cocchi's Allessandor nell'Indie (13.10.1761 London KT)

......Calzabigi, a somewhat unknown librettist who advocated the mixing of French and Italian serious opera to make a new genre better than either. Since this was also an idea that interested Durazzo*, he may have been the person who introduced Calzabigi to Gluck*.The two probably worked together on a ballet, Don Juan, which was premiered on October 17, 1761.

(Rousseau*, "secluded" in Montmorency, published his Nouvelle Heloise in 1761 but is otherwise offscreen )

G: Le Cadi dupé (9.12.1761 Wien B) [Der betrogene Kadi]

*Gioachino Cocchi's alias


Best regards.

[yanni]

The question of Willibald and Heinrich being the same person has already been settled by Robert Tompkins in December 2006 (His work on Beethoven's opus identifying Heinrich Koch's principles in Beethoven's work).

http://digital.library.unt.edu/searc...2&t=dc_creator

Old man river is to my liking, classical music is not and, from a philosophical viewpoint, so are calls to greek "bravery" at a time of, to put it mildly, gross and worldwide imbalance!

Here is another "focused" timeline abstract:

1784 (Treaty with England ratified by Congress. Bavarian Monarch Carl Theodore outlaws secret societies. Cagliostro moves to Lyons from Bordeaux to found the Mother Lodge of Egyptian Masonry. Royal Commission in Paris, including Franklin and Guillotine as members, investigates Mesmerism and returns a negative report.)

Caspar Anton von der Heyden genannt Belderbusch † 2. Januar 1784 auf Schloss Miel bei Bonn.

3 January , Gluck’s Orpheo and Eurydice first performed at the Smock Alley Theatre, Dublin
(check a Thomas Jefferson, famous irish actor with links to Richmond VA, London, Garrick, Haymarket, Covent Garden, Drury Lane during and after the Stuart rebellion)

Jefferson To Chastellux Annapolis, Jan. 16, 1784
The greatest difficulty we find is to get money from them….But enough of America it’s politics & poverty.—Science I suppose is going on with you rapidly as usual. I am in daily hopes of seeing something from your pen which may portray us to ourselves. Aware of the bias of self love & prejudice in myself and that your pictures will be faithful I am determined to annihilate my own opinions and give full credit to yours.
(Although reluctant to let go of the project, by January, 1784, the clamor to see the manuscript had grown so great that he informed the Marquis de Chastellux that he intended to print up "a dozen to 20 copies to be given to my friends, not suffering another to go out." The cost of American printing, however, was so high that the publication did not actually appear until after he was appointed Minister Plenipotentiary to France on May 7, 1784)

February Saint Germain “dies” in Schleswig Holstein.

March 1784 Cardinal de Rohan meets Marie Antoinette in Versailles.

April, 1784, Daly produced Gluck's opera, Orpheus and Eurydice, with Tenducci and Mrs. Billington as the stars. (On July 9th of the same year the famous "Douglas" riot occurred. when the Duke of Rutland was present on a command night at the Theatre Royal.)

April 1784 Jefferson notes on the Establishment of a Money Unit and of a Coinage for the United States..

Figaro’s nozzes, April in Paris, by Pierre-Augustin Caron Beaumarchais.

Another Belderbusch, possibly his nephew*, is appointed agent of Max-Frantz in Paris 1785 http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles...de_Belderbusch

*In 1802, this other Belderbusch became deputy for Oise, north of Paris, Duc d'Orleans former "property", headed by:

CASSINI Jacques Dominique, dit CASSINI DE THURY 2 juillet 1800

LEHOC Louis Grégoire 17 mai 1802

DELAHANTE Étienne Henri 3 juin 1806

CASSINI Jacques Dominique, comte de, dit CASSINI DE THURY 28 avril 1817
(Liste des présidents du Conseil Général de l'Oise at http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_de_l%27Oise)

IE The other Belderbusch is the same person as Cassini de Thury!!

Regards.

[Musicology]

Yes, Yanni. I rate this American singer/songwriter/guitarist (Jim Croce) as one of the finest musicians of the last few decades. He only made a few LP's. His songs in my view equal to Schubert or any other musician of the 18th or 19th centuries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USVvx...rom=PL&index=5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HR6d...aynext_from=PL

[yanni]

Of interest your shift of focus to 20th century "soul" music.

Für die Musikgeschichte hat Max Franz von Köln insofern Bedeutung, als er die Ausbildung Beethovens bei Joseph Haydn ermöglichte.....while Belderbusch ,at the pianoforte, accompanied him and his viola.

Of interest:

Mozarts »bestes Werk« ...

Mozart hat sein "Quintett in Es-Dur für Klavier und vier Bläser" (KV 452) am 30. März 1784 in sein »Verzeichnüß aller meiner Werke« eingetragen. Zu dieser Zeit war er endgültig in Wien angekommen, und hatte innerhalb von sechs Wochen als Klaviervirtuose und Komponist bei 22 Akademien mitgewirkt, daneben seine Schüler bzw. Schülerinnen unterrichtet und natürlich komponiert. Denn das Wiener Publikum wollte stets etwas Neues von ihm hören. »Nun können sie sich leicht vorstellen, dass ich nothwendig neue Sachen spielen muss […]«, schrieb er dem Vater. Neu war in Wien aber auch die »Harmoniemusik«, ein Ensemble aus acht Bläsern (2 Oboen, 2 Klarinetten, 2 Hörner und 2 Fagotte).

Mozarts Quintett, das er im k. k. Burgtheater am 1. April 1784 in einer eigenen Akademie den Wienern vorstellte, ist in diesem musikgeschichtlichen Zusammenhang zu sehen.

(You may place it in the timeline above yourself).

Yes, global "blasen" began then, in 1784.

[Musicology]

Yes Yanni. I'm having a little break from Mozart. I'm hoping to get in to some intensive work on him starting next week. So it's just a pause.

Yes, this last post of yours is interesting too.

(The posts on Jim Croce were hopefully OK).

[Musicology]

And here's some Doc Watson -

'Deep River Blues'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VAbrnjdtYw

And Leo Kottke -

'Last Steam Engine Train'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E_s4...eature=related

(Regarding Mozart etc. there is the House of Savoy too).

Robert

[yanni]

Here is a little Beethoven trio to cheer you up, courtesy of "Koch" (2/3).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJbhClb0iGk

[Musicology]

Thanks Yanni.

And here again - Doc Watson and Leo Kottke together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGbhVHrAcmo&NR=1

[yanni]

For finale (unless you have something other to contribute on the subject) here is

"Μάλιστα κύριε" grk for Yes Sir(in the sense: "Such is the state of things, pal") by greek national poet Zabetas singing it and playing his buzuki.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pciC...eature=related

[Musicology]

Very, very nice ! I like it a lot !!!

I really like this too -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30MC7...eature=related

For finale (unless you have something other to contribute on the subject) here is

"Μάλιστα κύριε" grk for Yes Sir(in the sense: "Such is the state of things, pal") by greek national poet Zabetas singing it and playing his buzuki.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pciC...eature=related

[yanni]

The one and only Markos ("Your eyelashes shine"-"Sunrise minore").

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxkfr...eature=related


(a fitting wake up call to english Wikipedia etc:
H. C. Koch
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.

and german wiki article on him is false

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Christoph_Koch
)

[Musicology]

Yes Yanni,

And here's some music from my own country. Scotland -

Road to the Isles
Andy Stewart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDz6c...eature=related

[yanni]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OxInaB-zT0

(or you could, I suppose, now focus on Beethoven Piano Quartets, WoO 36: in E; in D; in C and
explain to your colleagues their provenance!)