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Thread: English related doubts

  1. #136
    Registered User Darcy88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhar View Post
    Ok...I've been wanting to ask this for quite some time now...

    Whenever you think someone is the best, why do you put arguably in front of it (nice manners?). Like, 'Sachin Tendulkar is arguably the greatest batsman of this era.'
    I think it might be because such claims are often debatable. If you didn't put in the arguably then someone could come along and say "what about so and so, he was a damn great batsman as well." The arguably makes it less categorical and therefore more acceptable.

  2. #137
    Registered User billl's Avatar
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    First, the idea of "argue" has a common meaning that has anger and emotional conflict involved with it. Some people are surprised to find that it has a much calmer sense as well, in which it is used to describe the "arguing" of a position in reasoned debate. Lawyers "argue" their case. Rock music critics "argue" that certain groups are the best. Basically, it's about putting forth one's opinion, but with some facts/reasons backing that opinion.

    Anyhow, that is one reason why this use of "arguably" might seem strange, I think--but not the only reason (perhaps you were aware of this usage for "argue" already).

    I think it might also seem unusual because people giving their opinion are already giving an opinion. Why mention that the opinion could be argued? It would seem to be implied as soon as someone gives, it, right?

    Well:
    1) Saying "arguably" might indicate that the speaker has some reasons for throwing the opinion out there. It isn't just a random or juvenile opinion. Still, as much as the person might be suggesting they have some good reasons, they are also sort of allowing for this next idea here, number 2:

    2) More likely, the speaker isn't completely committed to the opinion, but wants to give it some credit. "Look, I'm not sure if they're the best, but a lot of people would say so--and there's good reasons to think it..." They just might not be sure. In fact, the person might hold another opinion entirely, when it comes right down to it. For example, if you think person A is the best football player, but you know that many people like person B, then, in a situation where person B is being offered a low salary to play for his team, you can say, "but person B is arguably the best player at his position!" and thus make this obvious point while NOT contradicting your support for person A.

    3) I think it is also the sort of thing a person might say if they DO hold that opinion, but don't want to get into an argument. It's easier to say "arguably best", and then anyone who would want to disagree would at least have to admit that there's something to debate/argue about regarding that opinion. Sometimes it might be fun for people to sit and debate which is better (Beatles? Rolling Stones?), but other times, especially if the conversation is about something else, and arguing about this opinion would be a distraction, or too exhausting at that moment, it's easier to avoid the issue and just say "arguably the best".

    I think case (2) is probably the most common usage. I know I wrote a lot about number (3), but I actually think it wouldn't happen as often as case (2)--but it might depend on the situation, and personality types.

    I think this covers a lot of the reasoning/nuance, but maybe there's something I missed and other people can add to it. And maybe there's some question about some situation that might seem a little different than these.
    Last edited by billl; 02-15-2012 at 03:37 AM.

  3. #138
    Have a nice day! Nikhar's Avatar
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    @darcy & @bill

    Thanks for your comments. I guess I get it, more or less.
    People laugh at me 'coz they think I'm a fool...I smile because I made someone laugh
    Nikhar Agrawal

  4. #139
    Registered User Lulim's Avatar
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    I'v some trouble understanding this phrase:

    "(s.o.) ... can waste time burning their tires just to catch up on ... (s.th.)"

    I would be glad if someone could explain it for me.

    Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.
    To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits
    in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable.”

    Helen Keller

  5. #140
    TobeFrank Paulclem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulim View Post
    I'v some trouble understanding this phrase:

    "(s.o.) ... can waste time burning their tires just to catch up on ... (s.th.)"

    I would be glad if someone could explain it for me.
    It seems to be saying that they are damaging their equipment/ selves in a futile effort.

  6. #141
    Registered User Lulim's Avatar
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    Thank you so much, Paul :-)

    Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.
    To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits
    in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable.”

    Helen Keller

  7. #142
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    I found this as I walked pass the Olympic stadium the other day.

    It is a postcard of The Houses of Parliement and underneath in the center of it it says:
    ''Love for all Hatred for none''
    Welcome to London


    It is supposed to be some kind of greeting to all the international public coming to the Olympics.

    What would you have thought if you found it?
    Last edited by cacian; 07-30-2012 at 04:59 AM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
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  8. #143
    rat in a strange garret Whifflingpin's Avatar
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    It seems to be (currently) the motto of certain Muslim groups who wish to disassociate Islam from armed militancy.
    Voices mysterious far and near,
    Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
    Are calling and whispering in my ear,
    Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?

  9. #144
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whifflingpin View Post
    It seems to be (currently) the motto of certain Muslim groups who wish to disassociate Islam from armed militancy.
    Hi Whiffling which post are you replying to?
    it may never try
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  10. #145
    rat in a strange garret Whifflingpin's Avatar
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    Whifflingpin: It seems to be (currently) the motto of certain Muslim groups who wish to disassociate Islam from armed militancy.

    Cacian: Hi Whiffling which post are you replying to?

    I was replying to the post on "Love for all. Hatred for none."
    Voices mysterious far and near,
    Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
    Are calling and whispering in my ear,
    Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?

  11. #146
    Have a nice day! Nikhar's Avatar
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    What's so special about the following line, ""Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again." It's said to be quite a famous opening line.
    People laugh at me 'coz they think I'm a fool...I smile because I made someone laugh
    Nikhar Agrawal

  12. #147
    Registered User Themis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhar View Post
    What's so special about the following line, ""Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again." It's said to be quite a famous opening line.
    I'd think it has less to do with the English language and more with the fact that it puts the reader right into medias res. And 'Rebecca' is generally a well-known book.
    “I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”- Robert McCloskey

  13. #148
    Justifiably inexcusable DocHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhar View Post
    What's so special about the following line, ""Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again." It's said to be quite a famous opening line.
    It's famous because it's effective.

    What's special about it is that if you were reading it and somebody snatched the book away from your hands, you'd chase them, catch them, kill them, reclaim the book, and read on.
    Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine...

  14. #149
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhar View Post
    What's so special about the following line, ""Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again." It's said to be quite a famous opening line.
    Difficult to say at first because this sentence on its own does not mean anything to anybody if it was just lying on a piece of paper out of context. The reason could be perhaps that the word Manderley is too obscure and could be anything from a place to a city to whatever.
    If this sentence however was
    ''Last night I dreamed I went to the moon again'' then that would attract attention because people would identify with it because the word 'moon' is publically known by literally everyone.
    I personally feel nothing towards this opening for the reasons that I stated above. I do not recognise the word Manderly although I understand the sentence.
    So I looked up Manderley. A reader with no computer but just the book would be quite tricky to get this opening line. I would say it would be quite a turn off for me. I must understand everything otherwise I switch off.
    Here this might be helpful.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/d...Manderley.html
    Last edited by cacian; 08-08-2012 at 03:36 PM.
    it may never try
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  15. #150
    TobeFrank Paulclem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    Difficult to say at first because this sentence on its own does not mean anything to anybody if it was just lying on a piece of paper out of context. The reason could be perhaps that the word Manderley is too obscure and could be anything from a place to a city to whatever.
    If this sentence however was
    ''Last night I dreamed I went to the moon again'' then that would attract attention because people would identify with it because the word 'moon' is publically known by literally everyone.
    I personally feel nothing towards this opening for the reasons that I stated above. I do not recognise the word Manderly although I understand the sentence.
    So I looked up Manderley. A reader with no computer but just the book would be quite tricky to get this opening line. I would say it would be quite a turn off for me. I must understand everything otherwise I switch off.
    Here this might be helpful.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/d...Manderley.html
    The point of the line is to raise questions in the mind of the reader. No reader when it was first written would associate Manderley with anything, except that it was a place - capital letter - and not Mandalay which is a city in Myanmar - (Burma). It would of course bring to mind briefly Mandalay, and all the exotic ideas of travels in Asia, before the reader would note the different spelling and subconciously ask the question - where is this place?

    The line also establishes the narrative voice - the I who dreams - who could be male or female - and the implied question is "why did you dream of that place?"

    I think that first line more than earns its keep in the book.

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