Masculinist Literature?

[JuniperWoolf]

The Bible?.

FANTASTIC answer.

Ovid's Metamorphoses. I don't think I've ever seen women being portrayed in such a helpless fashion in literature before.

Wow, really? Did you ever happen to read the one about Pholomila and Procne?

FYI: Just because something has the traits of what is commonly held by popular western culture as `masculine` doesn`t mean that it is anti-femminist and pro-male. I`m a woman, and my three greatest loves are fighting, comics and hockey. Does that make me any less of a woman? No. I favor Jack London over the Bronte sisters, but I`m still a feminist. All that I mean by that is that I don`t want to see women raped or beaten. To me, that`s feminism. I also don`t want to see any more people claiming that `men are genetically superior to women.`If you agree with me, then you`re a feminist too.

As for the theory on what `masculinist`should mean, I`d have to go ahead and say that this would include debunking any pre-concieved social notions of what a man SHOULD be. In this regard, gay-lit is technically masculinist-lit. Also, men ARE abused by women. They call it `nagging.`Many western women treat men like slaves. I see it all the time. Any literature that argues against such behavior while at the same time not putting down women in general could be considered masculinist-lit.

[WingedWolf]

I just thought of a really good example. "Being a Man (In the Lousy Modern World)" by Robert Twigger.

[JBI]

Depends how you define male. The female generally has been defined through the lens of non-male, in the sense that females historically were defined by how they were different then men, but that avoids an actual definition of men historically.

So if we want a book that offers an ideal, in the sense that it pushes for equality and a less biased representation and equal treatment for men and women, I would say Far From the Madding Crowd by Hardy. Gabriel Oak seems the perfect example of the good qualities and possible perfection of a male persona that is both compatible, and complementary to an equally fair female persona.

Now, if you want the most misogynist instead, there is a brief essentially pamphlet written in Ancient Chinese but readily available in translation online by Ban Zhao (pan Chao) called Lessons for My Daughters (translated under a bunch of different names) and is perhaps the perfect text to give to somebody and enforce when wanting to keep a woman imprisoned as a slave to her husband (and mother in law!). It's effects have been both wide and longstanding, making it as far as the beginning of the 20th century, and still resonating in places. Essentially it was the book a misogynist husband would smack over his wife's head every time she got out of line.

Edit: http://www.international.ucla.edu/ea...ts/banzhao.htm

[kelby_lake]

I knew this would happen in this thread.

The topic was raised asking if there is an equivalent literature to the popular feminist genre/bent. That is to say a literature that celebrates maleness and raises issues of difficulties particular to masculine constructs in society.

But of course anything celebrating masculinity is IMMEDIATELY seen as degrading women, right?

Let me ask, why you proposed women being helpless as masculinist? Does feminist literature mean all men in the book are portrayed as emasculated or dehumanized? Is that what 'all women' want? Do you think all men want helpless women?

Let's try and have a mature discussion without immediately falling back on ham-fisted generalizations and condemnations.

In my opinion "Revolutionary Road" dealt equally well with the gender conventions of masculinity in the 50's as it did with feminist issues. Just as women were encouraged to stay at home and ignore their aspirations to be good wives, men were pressured to go work in some cubicle and be responsible rather than pursuing their own aspirations. Similarly, the book looked judiciously at the power men and women have over each other in relationships to do immense emotional and psychological harm.

Thank you for understanding my question

Ignoring feminist non-fiction literature, I was thinking of works like 'The Handmaid's Tale'. Or 'Top Girls'- which shows what it was like in the 80's (and maybe even now) to be a woman having a successful business career in a 'man's world' and the balance between motherhood and working; something which speaks to women because these are issues women have.

Therefore masculinist literature would look at how men have been studied and portrayed in literature- if you like, what it is to be a 'man'. For example, there's a play called Tea and Sympathy where a sensitive teenage boy who gets picked to play female parts in school is denounced as gay whereas his teacher, a macho coach, is actually gay; so the idea that one can't be homosexual and masculine is false.

[The Comedian]

Maybe the Iliad is a good place to start looking at how ideas of masculinity were formed in literature.

[OrphanPip]

I would think it would be difficult to look at how authors have represented masculinity in literature without also looking at how they represent femininity. As has been pointed out previously, what was often viewed as feminine was often, by default, the characteristics that weren't viewed as masculine.

I would recommend the play The Country Wife by Wycherley. The play is obviously misogynistic in many ways, but one of the central themes of the play is cuckoldry and how the social relationships between men are an ever present backdrop to their relationships with women.

A lot of post-stonewall gay lit is heavily concerned with the nature of masculinity as well, but often this is really just about the conflict between sexual attraction to males and the social conventions of masculine sexual behavior.

[Madame X]

I would think it would be difficult to look at how authors have represented masculinity in literature without also looking at how they represent femininity. As has been pointed out previously, what was often viewed as feminine was often, by default, the characteristics that weren't viewed as masculine.

Indeedy. Schopenhauer, in fact, had quite a bit to say, “Über die Weiber”; an implicit 'celebration' of masculine strength and judiciousness vis-à-vis his wholesale dismissal of any such qualities existing within the feminine spectrum of humanity whatsoever, or rarely, at best (although, he is prudent enough to state that "the current of [a woman's] life should be more gentle, peaceful and trivial than man's, without being essentially happier or unhappier"; I mean, whew, what a load off ). An entertaining read at least, and not wholly misguided –in terms of general psychology, that is- either.

[kelby_lake]

I'm not looking for misogyinstic literature, although a lot of it probably will be. Just literature about the male pysche and male interactions.

[Modest Proposal]

The problem is, and I do wish to be careful here, there is a frustrating double standard in operation in educated sections of society hampering the celebration of masculinity. Of course, this is because historically patriarchy has enacted far worse on the female sex, but nonetheless it is difficult to discuss and even more so to celebrate the half of humanity seen--and probably rightly--as the author of many/most of the worlds ills.

It is the same imbalance existing with a black in America being proud of his heritage versus a white. Sure, both have skeletons in the respective closets, but many feel like celebrating white culture endorses the many and atrocious sins of their past. All of that said, I think an intelligent person can embrace and enjoy the aspects of European--even, gasp, German--pride and pride in their attributes and position within the masculine/male history without enacting/embracing the transgressions of their predecessors. But of course most of my professors and colleagues disagree.

As it stands, I like to read Hemingway at times and his descriptions of boxing and sailing. I also enjoy the epics of Homer and their explorations of what it means to be a man. Twain's books on boyhood, also Stevenson's, hold a special place with me and resonate pleasantly on youth. This is not to say that a woman cannot enjoy them for the same or for different reasons, or that I do not also enjoy works by and about females and the things the author believes special to a certain section of humanity.

[Dinkleberry2010]

Try Robert Bly's Iron John: A Book About Men.

[kelby_lake]

This is going to sound a bit bizarre but are there any decent novels about male prostitution? That's surely got to come under masculinist literature.

[OrphanPip]

This is going to sound a bit bizarre but are there any decent novels about male prostitution? That's surely got to come under masculinist literature.

I can't think of any centered especially on male prostitution, but there are some that touch on the subject to a greater or lesser extent.

One of the two main protagonist of Scott Heim's Mysterious Skin is a male prostitute. Although, this novel is more about the consequences of child molestation, and apparently has been described as a very accurate portrayal by psychologist. There's a movie adaptation by Greg Araki that was quite good as well.

Larry Kramer's Faggots touches very briefly on the subject, as it is largely a scathing satirical attack on 1980s New York gay culture.

Uh, other than that I can't think of any. Edmund White's last novel, Hotel de Dream was about a man in love with a male prostitute in the early 20th century, framed within a little story about the last days of Stephen Crane and playing off of an apocryphal anecdote about Crane. The prostitution is not really central to the novel though. I thought this novel was only OK, nothing spectacular. NYT review: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/16/bo...r=1&8bu&emc=bu

I don't want to just keep shoveling gay lit at you, so I'll stop now haha.

[keilj]

Hemingway is a good example. As far as other examples, I'm not sure everyone would agree that it is literature, but the Tarzan novels certainly have a lot to say about manhood, how it relates to nature, how it relates to civilized society

There are some memorable quotes from them that are somewhat macho - "You spoil your meat with fire"

[Debbborra]

This weekend I watched an episode of Men of a Certain Age and thought of this thread.

[kelby_lake]

I'm a bit jaded on this topic: I was force-fed heavy servings of radical feminism for a long time in my college education, so I bristle a little at even simple discussions of the topic.

But my general feeling is, no. There is no "Masculinist" literature in the sense that it is a parallel to feminist literature. If such a "masculinist" literature does exist, it would be called chauvinistic literature or fascist literature or patriarchal literature. But whatever it is, it would not be taught with the same "progressive" sensitivity ascribed to feminist literature.

Sorry to be so negative about this.

Is Masculinist Literature inherently misogynistic? That sounds very sexist as feminist literature isn't necessarily man-hating.
Masculinist Literature would have to extend beyond macho men just as feminist literature is not al about man-bashing.