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Thread: Heart of Darkness

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    Heart of Darkness

    Hey guys! i thought it would be good to start a HoD thread so we can continue our class discussions online. This way we can explain our thoughts on things like themes, symbols, foreshadowing, etc. Even though this book is only 72 pages long, it is packed with many subjects for discussion.

    One topic we have discussed in class is the great amount of mystery in Marlow's story. I discovered in tonight's reading "Watching a coast as it slips by the ship is like thinking about an enigma. There it is before you--smiling, frowning, inviting, grand, mean, insipid, or savage, and always mute with an air of whispering, Come and find out" (10). Not only does this passage reveal the mystery in this foreign land, but it also reveals traits Marlow possesses. Even though he has had many warnings and bad feelings about this trip, he cannot wait to discover this new land. He has no clue if it will bring warmth or coldness, but he is dieing to find out.

    Another topic is the comparison of light and dark throughout the journey. A passage that extends this thought is "a little white smoke would disappear...There was a touch of insanity in the proceeding, a sense of lugubrious drollery in the sight; and it was not dissipated by somebody on board assuring me earnestly there was a camp of natives-he called them enemies!--hidden out of sight somewhere" (11). Although the white people are the ones firing at the land, the natives are considered enemies. By the way Marlow reports this information, one can tell that he diagrees with this conclusion. Also the white smoke, is coming from the white people, showing the color symbolism we have discussed in class.

    These are a few topics to start us off, but please add your own.

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    Well, I found it very interesting that that at the top of page 9, Plato was mentioned because Plato wrote the two texts Timeaus and Critias which described the city of Atlantis. It's interesting that Marlow's stations' structures reflect that of Atlantis. Atlantis was formed with layers with an outer layer and accomadating inner layers just like the format of Marlow's stations. Also, in the center of Atlantis, was a temple of dedicated to Cleito and Poseidon. In class today, we discussed how as we moved inwards, we would learn about more powerful white figures and the most powerful (which i think will be Mr. Kurtz) might be in the center trading station just like the case with Atlantis. Also, the interior of the temple's roof was created from ivory, and frankly there is a "white" craze for the available ivory in Africa.

    ***TANGENT: This idea that the Americans desire the white ivory relates to the black hens in the sense that the elephants (dark) attain the white tusks, and the white hen eggs result in these dark, black hens. Thus, the duality and reversal of light and dark is seen because each object (dark hen/white ivory) projects the dark greediness within men that is caused by the light (knowledge) of the items there. However, darkness is affliated with knowledge in other areas of this short novel.***

    Also, there was an abudance of sunlight in Atlantis like there is in Africa. In fact, it was from this temple that the ten princes' (of Atlantis) family first saw light. This could correlate to the fact that the center is the the brightest b/c it is the most knowlegible and the center of the trading stations will perhaps (I don't know for sure since I haven't read that far) be the brightest because it will be the most knowledigble area that will impact Marlow the most (the Doctor's warning of getting too much sunlight b/c it changes ppl. could apply here as well).

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    The doctor's warning concerning the light is an important and an apparent predicament for the "changes take place inside" (Conrad 9) due to the sunlight. There are many "mental" changes that we see in the characters. For instance, the Russian man "had started for the interior with a light heart" (49). The fact that the Russian traveled to the interior with a light heart could represent that he was not burdened by guilt, knowledge, or sin. Yet, as he moved closer to the inner station, he was exposed to the "darkness" and treachery that Marlow encountered in the novel. Due his journey, the Russian man became a changed man, which is indicated by his flawed idea that the natives are not trying to hurt the whites.

    However, the characters undergo physical changes that indicate their sickness. For instance, Marlow feels feverish after spending some time in Africa. The idealized Kurtz (who's bald and thus retains the Sun more) also gets very ill multiple times. This connection is further seen through the manager: "He [the manager] had no learning, and no intelligence. His position had come to him-why? Perhaps because he was never ill...
    He had served three terms of three years out there...Because triumphant health in the general rout of constitutions is a power itself" (18). The manager stays inside all the time and he allowed his "overfed young Negro from the coast...to treat the white men"(19). Therefore, he was able to maintain his physical fitness while others amongst him were not. The more one gets exposed to the sun, the more physically ill they'll become. Therefore, one can soundly conclude that those who will stay in the inner station for a long time (in the Sun) will be doomed to death (the biggest physical change). The doctor's warning shall prevail for he "never see[s] those who come back" (9)...if they do indeed survive the darkness of Africa to return to Europe.

  4. #4
    So, first of all, the Russian's book. When I read the passage that talks about Marlow finding the book, it stood out to me as one of the most important symbols in the entire book, which is saying something.

    First of all, the book is about the finer points of seamanship. This book could have been called anything, and the title is not random. Marlow is an experienced sailor, so he knows most of what the book says. Why then does Marlow Become so fixated on a book that has little to teach him. The book represents Marlow's tendency to cling to what he already knows than face the new and strange knowledge of the Congolese jungle. This could speak to the natural tendancy of all people to fall back on what they have always known, just like in the Poisonwood Bible when Leah, Adah, and Rachel all react to Ruth May's death in thier unique way.

    So there's a little symbolism that I saw.

    Anyone else see any other interesting symbols?

    Please shed some light (or dark, if you wnat to look at it that way)

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    Quote Originally Posted by flgirl073 View Post
    Hey guys! i thought it would be good to start a HoD thread so we can continue our class discussions online. This way we can explain our thoughts on things like themes, symbols, foreshadowing, etc. Even though this book is only 72 pages long, it is packed with many subjects for discussion.

    One topic we have discussed in class is the great amount of mystery in Marlow's story. I discovered in tonight's reading "Watching a coast as it slips by the ship is like thinking about an enigma. There it is before you--smiling, frowning, inviting, grand, mean, insipid, or savage, and always mute with an air of whispering, Come and find out" (10). Not only does this passage reveal the mystery in this foreign land, but it also reveals traits Marlow possesses. Even though he has had many warnings and bad feelings about this trip, he cannot wait to discover this new land. He has no clue if it will bring warmth or coldness, but he is dieing to find out.

    Another topic is the comparison of light and dark throughout the journey. A passage that extends this thought is "a little white smoke would disappear...There was a touch of insanity in the proceeding, a sense of lugubrious drollery in the sight; and it was not dissipated by somebody on board assuring me earnestly there was a camp of natives-he called them enemies!--hidden out of sight somewhere" (11). Although the white people are the ones firing at the land, the natives are considered enemies. By the way Marlow reports this information, one can tell that he diagrees with this conclusion. Also the white smoke, is coming from the white people, showing the color symbolism we have discussed in class.

    These are a few topics to start us off, but please add your own.
    This is really one of the greatest classics I have read indeed and of course it is something that tries to prove that man, any good man is capable of or doing any evil things, and it proves how a person will have a moral down fall given he gets plunged into the situation like the one mentioned very classically by one of the best stylists writer in English, Mr. Contrad

    “Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””

    “If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.

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    Light serves as a symbol of knowledge that blinds many. Yet, it is almost as if the light blinds the people so that they cannot look outwards, but be forced to look inwards at the darkness within them. Thus, darkness could be a symbol of knowledge of oneself (or enlightment): “ ‘I am lying here in the dark waiting for death.’ The light was within a foot of his eyes…. Did he [Kurtz] live his life again in every detail of desire, temptation, and surrender during that supreme moment of complete knowledge?…[H]e cried out twice, a cry that was no more than a breath: ‘The horror! The horror!’” (Conrad 64). Kurtz had lived in the light for many years (after moving from Europe…a place with less light) and therefore he had been forced to examine the darkness within him. Kurtz (who moved away from the light that was a foot away from his eyes into the darkness) couldn’t tolerate the light anymore after he reached that supreme moment of complete knowledge and the outcome was his death.

    Tying this back with the blindfolded woman with the torch, it is plausible that Kurtz painted her blindfolded so that she wouldn’t be able to see the darkness within her since their would be no blinding light that would force her do so. Yet, she would bring the light to a dark region that would blind the inhabitants (they would be blinded because were not used to light). This woman could be a symbol of Africa (mother nature) since neither Africa nor the Africans seem to be impacted by the light because they are the source of light that exposes the darkness within everyone: “[B]owing my head before the faith that was in her, before that great and saving illusion that shone with an unearthly glow in the darkness, in the triumphant darkness which I [Marlow] could not have defended her [the Intended]—from which I could not have defended myself” (70). The illusion (the lie/deceit) was glowing in the darkness (the truth/ knowledge). Marlow states that he couldn’t protect her from this darkness because he couldn’t even protect himself from it. In fact, Marlow becomes a Buddha-like figure after his journey in Africa (he has learned of the true meaning of darkness). Therefore, it is appropriate that Africa is the heart of darkness—the heart of knowledge.

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    This novel strongly reminds me of the novel "Lord of the Flies" because both of these works revolve around savagery. Ironically though the darkness and savagery in these novels lies within the people. What even sparked this connection in my mind was a quotation that mentioned flies: "The flies buzzed in great peace" (Conrad 16)…which is a quote that I brought up in class to ask the significance of it.

    Furthermore, "Lord of the Flies" is a translation of Beelzebub (or Baalzebûb) who was the Philistine god of Accaron (Ekron) in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Beelzeboul was an evil spirit. However, Beelzeboul (Beelzebub) could refer to Satan as well (Matthew 122:2-29; Luke 11:15-22) and the Prince of Darkness. (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02388c.htm). This relates to Lord of the Flies because the “Lord of the Flies” in this text is beast-like, satanic figure that provides each individual that comes into contact with it the knowledge that the beast exists within them (Simon), or it relinquishes the beast within (the rest of the gang: Jack). Another biblical reference is seen with Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son. Judas betrayed Jesus by allying with Satan, and he hung himself after the flies surrounded him: “The buzz in Judas’ head grew louder. Flies. There were flies everywhere! They were swarming in droves around him. He couldn’t get away… In despair he fastened the noose around his neck and jumped. The buzzing of flies that preceded Judas’ suicide symbolized that Judas had been overcome by Satan” (http://thelife.com/symbolism/flies.html). In the Lord of the Flies, Simon who happened to be the only righteous and enlightened one in the novel, is the first one in the group to find out that the beast that they are hunting is actually within them: “‘There isn’t anyone to help you. Only me. And I’m the Beast…. You knew, didn’t you? I’m part of you? Close, close, close!’ [said Lord of the Flies]…. Simon found he was looking into a vast mouth. There was blackness within, a blackness that spread” (Golding 143-144). Here, Simon realizes that the beast in within them after his “conversation” with the Lord of the Flies that just happened to take place in his head. The blackness that was released from the head of the Lord of the Flies represents a satanic evil that overcomes each boy except for the righteous Simon who was killed.

    This relates to Heart of Darkness firstly because Kurtz is a demon/ Satan who seems to be the Prince of Darkness (darkness symbolizes evil in this specific cogitation) and an emblem of savagery. “He [Kurtz] had taken a high seat amongst the devils of the land—I mean literally, [said Marlow]” (Conrad 44) just as Beelzebub did amongst the devils and the Lord of Flies did amongst the boys. Kurtz possesses an inhuman power to sway anyone to bid his doing through his usage of eloquent (and god-like) words for “the man presented himself as a voice” (43) as did the Lord of the Flies. His ability to control is further displayed with his control over the natives: “He [Kurtz] was not afraid of the natives; they would not stir till Mr. Kurtz gave the [word]. His ascendancy was extraordinary. The camps of these people surrounded the place, and the chiefs came every day to see him. They would crawl” (53). Even the chiefs (those with the highest position and power) would crawl like “savage” animals in front Kurtz. Kurtz, like the Lord of the Flies (in Lord of the Flies), sparked the savage and beastly figures within the men around him. This is demonstrated by the enlightened Marlow’s (who is like Simon or Simon is like him…depending on which novel came first) realization that he was surrounded by “horned shapes stirring at [his] back” (68) that solely attained “vile desires,..meanness,…[and] torment” (68). These horned figures were jealous of Kurtz’s success and his success drove them to be such greedy people. Kurtz was the Prince of Darkness that stirred the darkness of greed within each heart of the Europeans present in Africa. However, there were some like Marlow (who equates to Simon in Lord of the Flies) that realized early on that the darkness was truly present in the people.

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    I was wondering who the anonymous narrator was (for I believed it was Joseph Conrad himself)…so, I did some research and I ended up finding information about Conrad’s inspirational journey on the Congo that lasted approximately 6 months. In 1890, he became captain of a steamboat after the previous captain died (like Marlow). “The area Conrad refers to as the Company Station was an actual location called Matadi, a location two-hundred miles up river from the mouth of the Congo. The Central Station was a location called Kinshasa” (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Darkness). I’ve cross-referenced this information with like two more sources so there is no need to worry about the validity of something coming from wikipedia. That’s quite interesting to me! I mean, all of the writers who’ve focused on Africa that we’ve read this year have actually been in Africa and have witnessed the culture for themselves. Even Jenna Bush has as well. It just seems to me that Africa has the ability to touch people even though it is extremely different than “civilized” areas.

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    One passage that expresses many themes of the book was "I remained to dream the nightmare out to the end,and to show my lloyalty to Kurtz once more. Destiny. My destiny! Droll thing life is--that mysterious arrangement of merciless logic for a futile purpose. The most you can hope from it is some knowledge of yourself--that comes too late--a crop of unestinguishable regrets" (Conrad 65). This quotation brings up the idea of dreams again. Marlow continues to describe his journey as a nightmare filled with evil and darkness. Marlow also explains that he will be loyal to Kurtz to the end. I found this confusing because of the way he reacted to Kurtz's death. Throughout this story Marlow flipped from agreeing with the white people and Kurtz to disagreeing with them. I never was really clear of his final decision. The enigma of this novel also pops up in this quotation by the mention of life as a mystery. Finally, this quotation returns to the quest aspect of the book. Marlow has been searching for self-enlightenment especially through Kurtz. He has gone through many tough times and experienced many horrifying events. Marlow has learned many new things from his journey, but he begins to regret his path. He is not sure if what he discovered about himself was worth what he had to go through. Marlow has completed a metamorphosis through this journey.

    Also I had a question about this passage: "with a compreensive and satisfied glance: the 'affair' had come off as well as could be wished. I saw the time approaching when I would be left alone of the party of 'unsound method.' The pilgrims looked upon me with disfavor. I was, so to speak, numbered with the dead. Is is strange how I accepted this unforeseen partnership, this choice of nightmares forced pon me in the tenebrous land invaded by these mean and greedy phantoms" (Conrad 63).
    Did Marlow have a plan with the manager to kill Kurtz? and if not what is the partnership? also what does he mean by "numbered with the dead"?
    Please let me know if any of you guys have thoughts on this!

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    Cool I Fully Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by hp 4ever! View Post
    Well, I found it very interesting that that at the top of page 9, Plato was mentioned because Plato wrote the two texts Timeaus and Critias which described the city of Atlantis. It's interesting that Marlow's stations' structures reflect that of Atlantis. Atlantis was formed with layers with an outer layer and accomadating inner layers just like the format of Marlow's stations. Also, in the center of Atlantis, was a temple of dedicated to Cleito and Poseidon. In class today, we discussed how as we moved inwards, we would learn about more powerful white figures and the most powerful (which i think will be Mr. Kurtz) might be in the center trading station just like the case with Atlantis. Also, the interior of the temple's roof was created from ivory, and frankly there is a "white" craze for the available ivory in Africa.

    ***TANGENT: This idea that the Americans desire the white ivory relates to the black hens in the sense that the elephants (dark) attain the white tusks, and the white hen eggs result in these dark, black hens. Thus, the duality and reversal of light and dark is seen because each object (dark hen/white ivory) projects the dark greediness within men that is caused by the light (knowledge) of the items there. However, darkness is affliated with knowledge in other areas of this short novel.***

    Also, there was an abudance of sunlight in Atlantis like there is in Africa. In fact, it was from this temple that the ten princes' (of Atlantis) family first saw light. This could correlate to the fact that the center is the the brightest b/c it is the most knowlegible and the center of the trading stations will perhaps (I don't know for sure since I haven't read that far) be the brightest because it will be the most knowledigble area that will impact Marlow the most (the Doctor's warning of getting too much sunlight b/c it changes ppl. could apply here as well).
    REPLY
    I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU. MARLOW IS CHANGING AS HE GETS CLOSER TO THE INNER STATION. WE SEE HIS MAJOR CHANGE AFTER HE MEETS KURTZ WHO REPRESENTS ENLIGHTENMENT OR THE LIGHT. THE FURTHER INTO THE SUNLIGHT THE MORE CHANGE MARLOW WAS OPENING HIMSELF UP. WE KNOW FOR SURE THAT HE CHANGED NOW THAT WE HAVE FINISHED THE BOOK. WHEN MARLOW RETURNS WE SEE HE HAS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ATTITUDE ABOUT EVERYTHING.

    PG 65-66
    "I found myself back in the sepulchral city resenting the sight of people hurrying through the streets to filch a little money form each other, to devour their infamous cookery, to gulp their wnwholesome beer, to dream their insignificant and silly dreams... They were intruders whose knowlege of life was to mean irratating pretense, because I felt so sure they could not possibly know the things I knew...I had no particular desire to enlighten them, but I had some difficulty in restraining myself from laughing in their faces, so full of stupid importance. "

    THIS QUOTE SHOWS SOME OF CHANGES THAT HAVE MARLOW HAS UNDERGONE. MARLOW FOR EXAMPLE WAS ALL ABOUT FOLLOWING YOUR DREAMS AND EXPLORING SILLY OR NOT. THE PROBLEM IS THAT NOW MARLOW THINKS EVERYONE ELSES DREAMS ARE STUPID WHEN HE TOO HAD A STUPID DREAM. I ALSO THINK IT WAS POINTLESS IN EXPECTING THE PEOPLE TO KNOW THE THINGS HE KNOWS WHEN THEY WERE NOT THERE TO EXPERIENCE IT. SO IM NOT REALLY SURE WHY HE IS SURPRISED OR MAYBE THAT HE WOULD EVEN CARE WHAT THEY KNEW. I FOUND IT ALSO INTERESTING THAT HE DIDN'T WANT TO ENLIGHTEN THE PEOPLE WHEN HE WAS ENLIGHTENED. HE SHOULD SHARE HIS KNOWLEDGE WIHT OTHERS AND MAYBE THEY CAN BRING SOME GOOD CHANGE INTO THE WORLD. THE TONE OF HIS LAST FEW WORDS IN THIS QUOTE I FOUND TO BE VERY BITTER. BEFORE MARLOW LEFT HE WAS CHIPPERY AND CARED ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE AND NOW HE THINKS EVERYONE IS STUPID.

    BUT THE THING I THOUGHT THAT SHOWED HIS REAL CHANGE WAS WHEN HE LIED TO KURTZ'S INTENDED ABOUT HIS LAST WORDS. I COULDN'T BELIEVE HE WOULD DO THIS WHEN HE SPENT A WHOLE PARAGRAPGH EARLIER TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH HE HATES LIES. I ALSO THINK HE WAS MAYBE DOING IT TO KEEP HER SANITY SO I GUESS IT WASN'T THAT BAD.

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    you guys..i have no clue how to work this thing.

    i jus spent an entire period typing up a reply..and it didn't get through.

    i hate this.

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    and now it goes through, great.

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    we're done!

    so guys, we've finally finished the book. Hopefully this time my stuff won't get erased. Anyway, i think the book overall was alright, not excellent. However, i do appreciate the depth and symbolism within the book. Conrad wrote this book in a way that is hard to understand, but i just know that there is very deep meaning within the book.

    Overall, i think Conrad was using this story as a way to portray his own feelings and experiences. I also read an article on him and how he also traveled to the Congo, and he probably witnessed many of these events in his own travels. Although slightly exaggerated, the characteristics of Kurtz can often be connected to the archetypal idea of the greedy, evil man. With the darkest of dark hearts, Kurtz lives a life that all men, yet no man would want to live. He lives the high life of riches and slaves, getting anything that he wants in any way that he wants it. However, he also lives a life of deception and extortion, a life in which he tricks those around him into thinking he is the men of all men. Ivory is the source of his greed, and he goes to great lengths to attain it.

    The fact that Kurtz is a musician realllly surprised me. How can such an evil man be capable of making beautiful sounds out of nothing? Musicians are especially known for their ability to perceive things differently, and from this they can create a sound that stimulates the mind peacefully. This description of him seems very different then the description given while he was in Africa. Any comments on this?

    Also, at the end, i was very confused. why? because it's an enigma!
    but really, the book just kind of ended. i mean, what happened?! Where did Marlow go after visiting His (Kurtz's) Intended? And moving back out into the frame story, why would Marlow be going on yet another trip to the heart of darkness if it affected him so greatly? Has he gone crazy? I don't like enigma endings!

    Any other comments on the overall book?

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    I personally thought HoD as tough read but having interesting points that the author makes. Statements about civilizations and who the real savages appear. The question is what is the heart of darkness and who holds this heart of darkness according to Conrad?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by flgirl073 View Post
    Also I had a question about this passage: "with a compreensive and satisfied glance: the 'affair' had come off as well as could be wished. I saw the time approaching when I would be left alone of the party of 'unsound method.' The pilgrims looked upon me with disfavor. I was, so to speak, numbered with the dead. Is is strange how I accepted this unforeseen partnership, this choice of nightmares forced pon me in the tenebrous land invaded by these mean and greedy phantoms" (Conrad 63).
    Did Marlow have a plan with the manager to kill Kurtz? and if not what is the partnership? also what does he mean by "numbered with the dead"?
    Please let me know if any of you guys have thoughts on this!
    Hmm. By "partnerships" he's referring to the cannibals and the white people--which includes Marlow (okay, that could have been worded a bit better.. oh well). Marlow talks about the dynamics of his crew often.

    "Fine fellows -- cannibals -- in their place. They were men one could work with, and I am grateful to them. And, after all, they did not eat each other before my face.... It was very curious to see the contrast of expressions of the white men and of the black fellows of our crew, who were as much strangers to that part of the river as we, though their homes were only eight hundred miles away. The whites, of course greatly discomposed, had besides a curious look of being painfully shocked by such an outrageous row. The others had an alert, naturally interested expression; but their faces were essentially quiet, even those of the one or two who grinned"
    Marlow has an interesting relationship with the natives. He doesn't see them as inferior--he refers to them as "fellows," a term that has an air of comradeship. Marlow also points out how differently the white and blacks react. He portrays the cannibals' reactions as more graceful (?) and the whites' as more "duhh"/stunned/barbaric.

    The rest of your question:
    "I saw the time approaching when I would be left alone of the party of 'unsound method.' The pilgrims looked upon me with disfavour. I was, so to speak, numbered with the dead. It is strange how I accepted this unforeseen partnership, this choice of nightmares forced upon me in the tenebrous land invaded by these mean and greedy phantoms."

    Okay. This is the point where Marlow is saying that the Europeans will call him crazy and "number him with the dead"--number him with Kurtz--b/c he may die soon. I may be misinterpreting this, but i think all this is saying is that Marlow sides with Kurtz when he doesn't think that Kurtz is crazy. And when Marlow sides with Kurtz, the Europeans no longer see him as one of them. They see him as a crazy person who will probably perish soon enough that he can be "numbered with the dead" Does that makes sense?

    Oh, and i don't think marlow had any plans to kill kurtz.

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