Is infidelity wrong?

[African_Love]

Up until recently, I would have said that infidelity is both immoral and disrespectful. Then I adopted the view that it was disrespectful but not immoral (if it could be guaranteed that one's partner would never find out about it) and now I'm not sure it's even that much (disrespectful).

Imo, something is morally wrong if it either a) causes someone else to suffer or b) deprives them of pleasure/happiness. Cheating on your spouse, if it could be guaranteed that (s)he will never find out, would not cause him or her to suffer nor would it deprive him or her of pleasure/happiness. His/her preference to be in a monogamous relationship would be satisfied, irrespective of whether or not they actually are in a monogamous relationship. The standard argument against cheating is "I wouldn't want my partner to cheat on me or to keep it from me" but this is actually a nonsensical thing to say and I think it comes from our highly developed capacity for abstract thinking. If you did not know that X=Y then it's meaningless to say "If I didn't know X=Y, I would want to know that X=Y", it's not as though you would be sitting there thinking " I wish someone would tell me that X=Y " or "I wish X did not equal Y". What exists to you is what you consciously experience.

At the very least, I argued, it was disrespectful but to 'respect' someone is to hold them in high esteem. People do not cheat because they have a low opinion of their partner or because they are dissatisfied with their relationship, although I'm sure both justify cheating to someone who themselves believes that cheating is unethical and/or disrespectful. Bob has sex with Jill because he is attracted to Jill, not because he lacks respect for his wife Elisabeth or is dissatisfied with their relationship.

I feel that it's tacky to lie to someone you care about but I can't actually articulate why it is disrespectful or why honesty is a moral virtue in circumstances where lying wouldn't alleviate suffering or cause pleasure/happiness. I just don't see how you could lie to someone and be truly intimate with them. If nothing else, I think cheating is morally irresponsible for the simple fact that you cannot guarantee your partner will never find out and it wouldn't be worth the risk of causing them distress.

[Granny5]

Infidelity is both morally wrong and disrespectful. It is disrespectful to the partner who is being cheated on as well as disrespectful to the vows that are taken during the marriage rites. If one promises before their families and their God to be faithful, it is morally wrong.
Why take the vows if one doesn't respect them? Why marry someone if one doesn't feel enough love and respect for their partner to be faithful? Why on earth would someone go into a marriage/partnership with the belief that vows mean nothing? Seems wasteful to me.

[mayneverhave]

You're definitions are lacking because they lack proper objectivity.

These can be simultaneously good for you/bad for someone else, and bad for you/good for someone else, and either way, they are depriving someone of pleasure.

Ex. A starving man robs a street vendor. He thereby brings himself pleasure (by continuing his life, being nourished, etc.) and the vendor displeasure (by losing profit, being robbed, etc.)

And as for disrespect. What about self respect? Is it not disrespectful to yourself if you are trapped in a loveless marriage that is both emotionally and sexually unfulfilling? - i.e. Madame Bovary.

This less true of today, but in the past when marriages were more about forging alliances than love, infidelity was certainly less "morally wrong and disrespectful".

Why take the vows if one doesn't respect them? Why marry someone if one doesn't feel enough love and respect for their partner to be faithful? Why on earth would someone go into a marriage/partnership with the belief that vows mean nothing? Seems wasteful to me.

Multiple reasons can be given:

1. People are compelled to marry outside of their own will (i.e. by society, parents, etc.)

2. People frequently change, especially after marriage, because of the necessary fact of aging, the biological difficulities of monogomy. What if your husband/wife slowly develops into a completely different person?

[Granny5]

Multiple reasons can be given:

1. People are compelled to marry outside of their own will (i.e. by society, parents, etc.)

2. People frequently change, especially after marriage, because of the necessary fact of aging, the biological difficulities of monogomy. What if your husband/wife slowly develops into a completely different person?

I guess I was thinking of someone in a committed relationship. My husband and I ARE completely different people after 36 years together but we respect each other and are committed to our marriage and our family. I am lucky that we do love each other and married because we both wanted to grow and change with each other. Our basic selves are the same, we just continue to learn, grow, and change in our outlook on life and social beliefs. But if there was a change in either of us that caused our commitment to weaken or became unbearable to the other, we could/would end our marriage legally. But we both believe that when we took our vows, we were making a lifetime commitment that included respect and faithfulness.

[Virgil]

If anyone even has to ask then, wow, it's not even worth commenting. You can't get lower in moral equivilence than that.

[African_Love]

You're definitions are lacking because they lack proper objectivity.

What is this supposed to mean? There is no objective morality.

These can be simultaneously good for you/bad for someone else, and bad for you/good for someone else, and either way, they are depriving someone of pleasure.

Ex. A starving man robs a street vendor. He thereby brings himself pleasure (by continuing his life, being nourished, etc.) and the vendor displeasure (by losing profit, being robbed, etc.)

I clearly said that (imo) something was morally wrong if it caused another sentient being to suffer or deprived them of happiness.

And as for disrespect. What about self respect? Is it not disrespectful to yourself if you are trapped in a loveless marriage that is both emotionally and sexually unfulfilling? - i.e. Madame Bovary.

Again, sympathy/compassion/empathy (which I believe to be the only sensible basis for any moral framework) is other focused.

Infidelity is both morally wrong and disrespectful. It is disrespectful to the partner who is being cheated on as well as disrespectful to the vows that are taken during the marriage rites.

The vows that one takes are an abstraction, are they not? Does it matter if you disrespect an idea or concept rather than an actual being? If a man says "f--- my dead mother, she was stupid, fat etc." that is disrespectful, even though it doesn't harm her, because it shows he has a low opinion of her. Someone could think very highly of their partner and still be attracted to other people.

If one promises before their families and their God to be faithful, it is morally wrong.

I feel strongly that to break your word is tacky but I'm not sure about morally wrong.

Why take the vows if one doesn't respect them?

Because they wanted to have their cake and it as well, I guess.

Why marry someone if one doesn't feel enough love and respect for their partner to be faithful?

WHether cheating is acceptable or not, I believe most people are fully capable of loving and being attracted to more than one person so, imo, this is akin to asking "why be friends with so and so if you don't respect them enough to not develop any other friendships".

[qimissung]

It is wrong. It is disrespectful. I think some people use ist as a "raft" to help them move out of an unhappy relationship. That doesn't make it OK, moral, or respectful. A relationship by it's very nature implies that there will be honesty between the couple; to be dishonest and to engage in physical relations outside of a monogamous relationship hurts the relationship, even if the other person never knows. If it's not a monogamous relationship, well, that's out of my league, and another story entirely.

[African_Love]

even if the other person never knows

But how can someone be hurt without knowing that they're hurt? Imo, it's meaningless to talk about harm or benefit outside of consciously experiencing pain or pleasure. Assuming that the cheater's attitude doesn't change (they don't become more distant, less responsive, ) and the one being cheated on never suspects a thing, how does it hurt the relatinship?

I can understand the argument that it's disrespectful, I don't see how it could be considered immoral if it could be guaranteed that the person would never find out and thus, suffer as a result.

[Buh4Bee]

It is wrong. It happens and people do it, but even if the partner doesn't know, it still inadvertently will effect the relationship. If you are going to cheat than there is no more respect left. I agree with Gimissung, that people use it as a raft to float out of a bad relationship, which is the coward's way out.

[Dark Muse]

I can understand the argument that it's disrespectful, I don't see how it could be considered immoral if it could be guaranteed that the person would never find out and thus, suffer as a result.

That sort of logic is along the same lines as, you haven't really committed a crime unless you get caught.

First of all, I do not think there has ever been an incident in which a person was completely oblivious to the fact that they were being cheated upon. While their are those who might get away with it for a long period of time, it is my belief it is more to the self-denial of the spouse than the fact that they really do not have any idea at all, but rather they ignore the little signs to avoid confronting the truth.

By betraying their trust, of even if they do not know you are having an affair you are still betraying them, as they would have the basic expectation that would remain faithful to them, than you are doing harm, even if they are not directly aware of the infidelity.

The person who cheats is mocking their vows and basically stating that the feelings of his or her partner do not matter, and that their love and trust are worthless and meaningless. And if you are a person who is in away spiritual than by cheating your act is immoral in the fact that you are betraying vows not only to your partner but to whatever higher power you happen to believe in. Whatever religion a person might follow, in marriage they have sword to be faithful not only to their partner but also to some sort of divine power, and so their act is an offence against said divine power.

And if a person happens to be an atheist, even though it is not an actual law, they still have sworn before a judge to conduct themselves in a certain way to their partner. So in the act of cheating even if the spouse never finds out about it, a sacred contract is still being violated.

For me, betrayal is truly the sin of sins, it is the unforgivable wrong. And those that cheat are the lowest of the low. I have no respect of sympathy for them and they would deserve to be sent to the lowest ring of Dante's Hell. To violate someone's trust is a wound beyond any physical injury.

And I do not personally believe there could ever be a situation in which the spouse never finds out, and the longer the time that passes before they are forced to face the truth, the more it will hurt in the end, so it is not realistic to speak of in terms of "well if they never find out."

Under those terms a person could justify to themselves committing any act, if they can be assured that they will never be caught.

[blazeofglory]

From what we have learned from moral science and from our elders I think infidelity is spiteful. For our values, beliefs, moral standards are formed by what our schools, parents, elders have taught us; and we are conditioned of course. However love is something a little subtler than the rest of other values in that even among animals there is a little bit envy and they want to own their mating partners, and in birds it is more discernible. That presupposes the fact that fidelity is a virtue we must keep to in so far as we hold our postion in society and fidelity kept intact strengthens human relationship

[DWolfman]

A quote for you:

"Character is who you are when no one's looking"

Whether or not your significant other is aware of the cheating situation, it shows a lack of character to participate. By that premise, your character is undertaking something that is morally bankrupt and "cheating" by definition shows a clear disrespect for one you supposedly hold dear.

[African_Love]

I've reconcluded that it is disrespectful but not morally wrong (or at least it wouldn't be if it could be guaranteed that the person would never find out).

That sort of logic is along the same lines as, you haven't really committed a crime unless you get caught.

If you kill someone, you deprive them of all future possibility for happiness or pleasure. If you rape someone, you cause them to suffer, even if no one ever knows it was you. These things are immoral regardless of whether or not you get caught because they either cause disress or deprive someone of happiness, cheating does neither.

First of all, I do not think there has ever been an incident in which a person was completely oblivious to the fact that they were being cheated upon.

Which is why I think it's still morally irresponsible but in this hypothetical scenario (where the 'victim' will never find out), I don't think it is immoral. Just disrespectful.

[Dark Muse]

I've reconcluded that it is disrespectful but not morally wrong (or at least it wouldn't be if it could be guaranteed that the person would never find out).

It seems to me that by the very fact that it is not morally wrong only under the circumstances that another person does not discover it, is in itself proof of the immorality of it.

If an act is a moral act, than it should not rely upon secrecy to make it so.

And by saying that infidelity is not immoral, is by default saying it is in fact a moral thing to do, and by definition if an act is moral than it is just and right.

If you conclude infidelity is not immoral, than it is just, and right to be unfaithful.

For you cannot say that it is neither immoral nor moral, it must be one or the other.

[JBI]

If anyone even has to ask then, wow, it's not even worth commenting. You can't get lower in moral equivilence than that.

I'd have to agree, though I am unsure how I stand on morals, I tend to run my life by what is considered proper etiquette and manner, and, on those grounds, infidelity is certainly ill mannered.