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Thread: Sense and Sensibility Discussion

  1. #46
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    Wow. Deep analysis. Yeah, but in terms of love from physical attraction and personality, I think it was Willoughby. With CB, I don't think Marianne found love, but more like they found solace in each other. I think Edward and Willoughby are completely different, that's just my opinion.

  2. #47
    Registered User kiki1982's Avatar
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    Of course the men Ferrars and Willoughby are diffrent, but not their initial situations. That was what I was getting at. Oh, my God, if Elenor had wanted Willoughby or a man like hm, then she would have been seriously strange!

    But deep analysis... You should see some of the debates on this forum...
    One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.

    "Je crains [...] que l'me ne se vide ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scne VII)

  3. #48
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    Forums are to discuss. Plus, the deeper the analysis, the more intellectual and broader-minded it makes you, in my opinion. Yeah, I get what you're saying now, and I agree. I also enjoyed how each of the characters take a journey through the book, where they develop their personality and desires. That intrigues me.

  4. #49
    Registered User kiki1982's Avatar
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    That is beautyful about Austen, and some other writers: you feel like the novel was worth it because characters are better off afterards (what you can't say about lots of others)...

    You said you only started a short while ago with reading... Why and what did you read before (or was that totally zero?)?
    One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.

    "Je crains [...] que l'me ne se vide ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scne VII)

  5. #50
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    And what will you be reading next?

    I sort of agree with Aamir more than with Kiki. I feel that by marrying Colonel Branden, Marianne does a very sensible thing, and I do not doubt that she'll be happy. But she has to sacrifice all her romantic ideals, and at such a young age. It was a pity.

    I guess I just don't feel anything much for Colonel Brandon, while I really liked Marrianne!
    Exit, pursued by a bear.

  6. #51
    Registered User kiki1982's Avatar
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    Willoughby seemed nice on the surface to me, but after his escapades with that daughter of CB's first love became known it kind of repelled me.

    If a man can lie to a girl and take her to bed, ruin the life of that girl out of selfishness and if he can do something so despicable as what Willoughby did with Marianne (imagine the shock to the poor girl!) without even taking the trouble for explaining, then is he worth the trust? To me, he could well have put discretion away and explained his problem. What could Marianne hae done apart from take leave of him? He does not want to marry without money, then ok, fine, he doesn't, but still she would have known why he left her and wouldn't have suffered that much and foremost would not have felt used. Now, he just ignores her, sends the letters back without seeming explanation and is rude to her, and then she pines away almost. After whih he feels guilty. I think Mariiane's trust in romance had to be tempered a little.
    Imagine the aunt would have let Willoughby marry Marianne, had he thrown himself upon her kindness (as another character does in another Asten-nvel. I won't say which not to spoil it for Aamir ), what would she have suffered if she had found out about his pre-marital escapades with that girl and his illegitimate child? And furthermore, would he never have betrayed her trust? he can say he is in love now, but still, he told Miss Grey the same I would think when proposing to her (which woman would marry a man for anything but love anyway if she had a fortune of 30,000?).

    Call me old-fashioned but I find a partner should be trustworthy and that is not Willoughby.

    I don't know if Marianne loved Brandon. Maybe she went the same way as Lizzie... Firstly, uh, no, and then, well maybe...
    One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.

    "Je crains [...] que l'me ne se vide ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scne VII)

  7. #52
    Registered User mona amon's Avatar
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    No, no, I didn't mean that. I don't like Wiloughby either, and I think Marianne was lucky she didn't end up with him. It's just that there's such a complete rout of 'sensibility' and such an overwhelming triumph for 'sense' when Marianne marries Colonel Brandon. Why should 'sensibility' be such a bad thing just because one man that she falls in love with turns out to be an unprincipled libertine.

    I felt Marianne was a lovely character. She is warm, generous, affectionate and bubbling with enthusiasm for the beautiful things in life. The affair with Wiloughby and her subsequent illness seem to break something in her, and her marriage to Colonel Brandon seems to be a result of a loss of confidence in herself and everything she believed in.

    She might have really liked CB after a while, and that's why she married him; but that is something we have to imagine for ourselves. The text does not make us feel it, IMO.
    Exit, pursued by a bear.

  8. #53
    Registered User kiki1982's Avatar
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    Maybe the reversal was the funny thing: Elenor goes more for sensibility and Marianne for sense. Although, I do believe that when Austen writes that Brandon was restored to cheerfullness by Marianne, that she 'could never love by halves' and that 'her heart became, in time, as much devoted to her husband as it once had been to Willoughby', it does imply something.

    Whether that something is not rather the opposite is question. However, her sufering sheds a light on her deep affection for Willoughby.

    When Austen also writes that Marianne was born to 'an extraordinary fate', 'to discover the falsehood of her own opinions' maybe it could be read as a sneer towards her brother, who continues on his (erroneous) way and only comes to visit them when Colonel Brandon is becoming part of his family.
    One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.

    "Je crains [...] que l'me ne se vide ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scne VII)

  9. #54
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    Firstly, thanks to Kiki for not spoiling it.
    I have heard a few interpretations of the title of the book - that Elinor stands for sense and Marianne for sensibility, or that CB stands for sense and Edward stands for sensibility, but in my opinion Sense and Sensibility is the journey they go through (referring to my other post), switching between the glands of both these emotions. In answer to your question Kiki - I was actually an avid reader of books before, but not classical ones. I used to read all the popular books (Harry Potter, Narnia, that sort of thing) plus books of my personal choice, but nothing that was really deep. To your question Mona - I actually got the book Robinson Crusoe by Daniel Defoe today so I will probably start reading that tonight, so look for me on the Daniel Defoe board soon! I'll still keep talking about this awesome book, though.

  10. #55
    Registered User kiki1982's Avatar
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    I think those interpretations are a little shallow, beause, as you say, they both (or all) have to put some water in their wine.

    Have a lot of fun doing Robinson Crusoe. I have got Moll Flanders, but still need to get through Eliot's The Mill on the Floss (hard work)...
    One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.

    "Je crains [...] que l'me ne se vide ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scne VII)

  11. #56
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    What I was trying to communicate was that the title Sense and Sensibility, in my opinion, has an unrecognized profound meaning, which reflects the story considerably. What I was saying earlier about the characters journeys I still stand by - I don't believe that one character was meant to represent sense and another sensibility - I believe that each character had periods of both of these feelings, and the title represents this. If I asked you what Sense and Sensibility is about, you would probably say "Well, two sister move to...etc." I don't agree. I don't think the book is about Elinor and Marianne (it obviously revolves around them, but read on), but instead about two characters that personify themselves through Elinor and Marianne - Sense and Sensibility.

  12. #57
    Registered User kiki1982's Avatar
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    Yes, that is a profound meaning, and will be more right than only sense in one person and sensibility in another.

    They both go indeed through a journey so it does not make sense to put the two sisters each in one category.

    The ironic thing is that Marianne calls Elinor unfeeling. That is certainly not true. Only, Elino is restrained, but that will not exclude sensibility from her... I think Marianne gets a little sense in the end. Not that she marries CB only out of snese, I don't think, but she restrains herself more and does not throw herself totally at anyone's feet anymore. She no longer is impulsive as she was with Willoughby...
    One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.

    "Je crains [...] que l'me ne se vide ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scne VII)

  13. #58
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    I completely agree. I found it funny that Elinor's sense led her to marry the man that she had the sensibility to, and Marianne's sensibility led her to marry the man that she knew it was sensible to marry. This backs up what I was saying earlier.

  14. #59
    Registered User kiki1982's Avatar
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    For the marriage of Elinor, maybe there was sense involved, though, albeit very little. If she had wanted more money, she shoud have gone to look for a loaded man. Instead, she married one who was going to be a poor curate. But then, that was probably better than just staying unmarried (whom would she have met in Barton?). Mother did not have that great an income and they would have depended on charity eventually... Marrying was the only way out.

    Other than that, Marianne eventually marries the older bachelor. I think she did feel something for him (that would account for the irony from the beginning) eventually. That said, with any luck, she would have been a widow at a reasonable age and could have married again. Not being cruel on brandon, but people did not become very old. Even if he were to live until 60, she would only have been 38. 80 was almost immortal... Although most gentlemen died because of accidents, not having child birth.

    But, both girls come to see some errors in their ways and cnclude the middle way is the best...
    One has to laugh before being happy, because otherwise one risks to die before having laughed.

    "Je crains [...] que l'me ne se vide ces passe-temps vains, et que le fin du fin ne soit la fin des fins." (Edmond Rostand, Cyrano de Bergerac, Acte III, Scne VII)

  15. #60
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    Yeah, again I agree. Something I found rather unexplained properly is why Lucy eventually married Robert. I didn't get the whole background around that. I got the basics though. I just didn't get the motives. Care to explain?

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