Gender and Violence

[AmericanEagle]

Couldn't it be argued that such extremes are brought about by women amongst themselves, as a way of asserting dominance over each other?

But why would women feel the need to assert dominance over each other? So that they can compete with each other over who is more attractive to men? Why is hegemonic masculinity more appealing to women than sisterhood?

[Shalot]

Is it due to patriarchy or just materialism? I think the emphasis is put on between women to look good, and has very little to do with men - the really expensive things - notably designer clothing, high priced hair cuts, and fancy makeups, in the long run will probably go unnoticed by men, relative to the prestige placed on them by females - I am not entirely convinced the whole hegemonic femininity is really defined by patriarchy - there certainly is an historical relevance of men on the tradition - but by this point I think there is very little patriarchy involved, and has more to do with how women define themselves, rather than how men restrict/define women.

I agree with this. My husband made me aware of it and I came to realize that I was spending way too much money on items that men don't notice. In fact, it came to my attention when I was talking to my husband and his male friends that most men don't notice and if they do, they notice an article of clothing or make-up it's because it's weird looking or overdone. I have known some males who care about designer brands and they were always the insecure ones.

[JBI]

But why would women feel the need to assert dominance over each other? So that they can compete with each other over who is more attractive to men? Why is hegemonic masculinity more appealing to women than sisterhood?

Do you see me running around accusing women of bringing men to the point where they compete about penis size, or physique? Can we say, "Women are to blame for forcing men to conform to an image of ideal masculinity?" and even then, wouldn't it be a stretch to claim "matriarchy" as the root?

Naturally, this is, in terms of evolution, as seen in the wild amongst animals, both genders of mammals find ways to attract the opposite sex. It's just the way we work - it has nothing to do with binary structures - nobody wishes to engage in a relationship, or better yet, engage in sexual relationships, with somebody they don't find the least bit attractive - whether physically, or emotionally. In that sense, both genders do things as to catch their desired partner's attention.

[AmericanEagle]

Do you see me running around accusing women of bringing men to the point where they compete about penis size, or physique? Can we say, "Women are to blame for forcing men to conform to an image of ideal masculinity?" and even then, wouldn't it be a stretch to claim "matriarchy" as the root?

We don't live in a matriarchal society, though.

[blazeofglory]

Why rapes happen the way they do in society?

I take one philosophical point here. The done is also accountable for the action in part as the doer.

Why are women raped? Are they not responsible at all? When a woman wears a glossy, shiny tight jeans, and at times walk half-naked that are exhibitions, or showing-offs our of their vainglory or arrogance. They hook males towards them.

Why do women wear very attractively after all? Naturally to attract opposite sexes? Opposite sexes cannot contain themselves in such circumstances and become aggressive, and of course aggression is man's one of the primeval motives. What is more man has biological instincts and has sexual organs and they respond to external stimuli and on this ground man's aggressiveness is vindicated.

I do not vindicate man sexual harassment man is engaged in, at times women too at all but I do not want to be simply dishonest to truth.

If we leaf through evolutionary historical treatises man has always been aggressive, and his aggressiveness was not just the choice but the need to in order to fortify himself and his family members against outsiders or attackers.

Modesty is a good word, and if women keep it and do not exhibit vulgarity the way they do, walking almost nakedly, wearing too much glossy dresses and behaving funnily man becomes subdued, hooked and of course goes amok.

What I said may infuriate women largely but truth must be told at any cost sooner or later.

[Zee.]

Why rapes happen the way they do in society?

I take one philosophical point here. The done is also accountable for the action in part as the doer.

Why are women raped? Are they not responsible at all? When a woman wears a glossy, shiny tight jeans, and at times walk half-naked that are exhibitions, or showing-offs our of their vainglory or arrogance. They hook males towards them.

Why do women wear very attractively after all? Naturally to attract opposite sexes? Opposite sexes cannot contain themselves in such circumstances and become aggressive, and of course aggression is man's one of the primeval motives. What is more man has biological instincts and has sexual organs and they respond to external stimuli and on this ground man's aggressiveness is vindicated.

I do not vindicate man sexual harassment man is engaged in, at times women too at all but I do not want to be simply dishonest to truth.

If we leaf through evolutionary historical treatises man has always been aggressive, and his aggressiveness was not just the choice but the need to in order to fortify himself and his family members against outsiders or attackers.

Modesty is a good word, and if women keep it and do not exhibit vulgarity the way they do, walking almost nakedly, wearing too much glossy dresses and behaving funnily man becomes subdued, hooked and of course goes amok.

What I said may infuriate women largely but truth must be told at any cost sooner or later.

Oh, ohkay... so we are responsible for being raped?


Rape is an act of VIOLENCE against a woman. The act is "sexual" because it involves some kind of intercourse, but it is not sexually driven.

It's about finding a victim. It's about overpowering that person and hitting them in their most weak and vulnerable spot. Sex is meant to be trusting and comfortable, rape exploits that, rape is the most degrading act any woman can experience.

NO one asks for rape.

A woman should be able to display her beauty without fear of being sexually assaulted because of it. And men should have enough self control. What you have said is not only offensive to a woman but to a man also.

People don't go around.. raping people, because they may see them "semi naked" and think, oh, i'm attracted to her, i'm going to rape her.. - rape is about POWER, it's not about attraction.
Rapists target the vulnerable, including elderly women. Rarely does it have anything to do with being attracted sexually to their victim. They want to target a person they can exercise their power over. It is about the rapist themselves, not the victim.

Why should we women, feel ashamed of our bodies? bodies that were given to us. Why should we feel like the only way we can be safe, is if it is covered up?
I wore skinny jeans the other day, and a t shirt that barely covered me up - so i guess that means i'm responsible, if i'm raped yeah?


It's not about attraction. I' don't feel the urge to "rape" people i'm attracted to...
It's about power, inadequacy, and finding someone to exert power over, for gratification.

[Hurricane]

+1 to limajean. Rape isn't as much about sex as it is about control. For most rapists, it doesn't matter what the woman's wearing, it just matters that they're a woman.

Naturally to attract opposite sexes? Opposite sexes cannot contain themselves in such circumstances and become aggressive, and of course aggression is man's one of the primeval motives.

By this logic, I should arrested for sexual assault every time I go to the beach.
"Sorry Officer, but he looked so good with his shirt off!"

There are things you can do as a female that make you a hard target. Not doing them doesn't mean you "deserve" to be raped, are asking for it, or are in any way at fault. Walking around in a bad part of town wearing Gucci sunglasses may not be smart, but it's still not your fault if you get mugged.

It also does a pretty big disservice to men to say they can't control their physical urges. That sounds dangerously close to that whole 19th century crap about how men have sexual desires that "need" to be filled and women don't.

[MUMUKSHA]

It's about finding a victim. It's about overpowering that person and hitting them in their most weak and vulnerable spot...
People don't go around.. raping people, because they may see them "semi naked" and think, oh, i'm attracted to her, i'm going to rape her.. - rape is about POWER, it's not about attraction.
Rapists target the vulnerable, including elderly women. Rarely does it have anything to do with being attracted sexually to their victim. They want to target a person they can exercise their power over. It is about the rapist themselves, not the victim.

Why should we women, feel ashamed of our bodies? bodies that were given to us. Why should we feel like the only way we can be safe, is if it is covered up?
I wore skinny jeans the other day, and a t shirt that barely covered me up - so i guess that means i'm responsible, if i'm raped yeah?


It's not about attraction. I' don't feel the urge to "rape" people i'm attracted to...
It's about power, inadequacy, and finding someone to exert power over, for gratification.

It is about power, not at all about attraction of any kind whatsoever.

[BienvenuJDC]

But why would women feel the need to assert dominance over each other? So that they can compete with each other over who is more attractive to men? Why is hegemonic masculinity more appealing to women than sisterhood?

Are you trying to deny that women are competitive? I'm just trying to understand what you are saying...

[soundofmusic]

It makes no difference - if I was to come home and find a beautiful woman lying spread eagle naked on my bed, I would still need to ask for consent - the whole concept of enticement is not an excuse -

But then again, some women find it "enticing" to watch men work without a shirt on, or whatever, so it works both ways - as far as I am concerned it's healthy sexuality as long as nobody is violated.

I think this is particularly important because people perceive things differently. After Beyonce began wearing pants with exposing a crack; many of the local teenagers also began to wear them. I would watch them going about their daily chores, exposing too much bottom; but totally clueless of the attention they were receiving from others. They were no more flaunting their sexuality than my plumber is when his crack is exposed.

But why would women feel the need to assert dominance over each other? So that they can compete with each other over who is more attractive to men? Why is hegemonic masculinity more appealing to women than sisterhood?

That is a brilliant point, AmericanEagle. I think that in a society where women outnumber men; and there are so few attractive, healthy, financially and emotionally secure men, keeping a man becomes a highly competitive game. At this point in time, women not only have to be attractive, we have to be capable of running a household, bearing children, and financially capable of supporting our mates, if necessary.

[papayahed]

That is a brilliant point, AmericanEagle. I think that in a society where women outnumber men; and there are so few attractive, healthy, financially and emotionally secure men, keeping a man becomes a highly competitive game.

Really? I may be in the minority but if a man thinks he can do better elsewhere then go.

It seems like to me you are suggesting women should do whatever it takes to keep her man but I have to wonder at what cost? Is it worth it to wrap your self worth into keeping a man who may not even be worth it? And why is he more special then I am??

[soundofmusic]

Really? I may be in the minority but if a man thinks he can do better elsewhere then go.

It seems like to me you are suggesting women should do whatever it takes to keep her man but I have to wonder at what cost? Is it worth it to wrap your self worth into keeping a man who may not even be worth it? And why is he more special then I am??

You've got a very good head on your shoulders, Papayahed. I feel the same way in theory; but over the years, I have went to boring action movies, lost weight, read literature I had no interest in, double dated and went to parties (when I hate both), dyed my hair the color of "the last girlfriend", stopped wearing makeup, started wearing makeup, stopped wearing sexy clothes, started wearing sexy clothes for the men in my life...I don't do it anymore; but it took me most of my 55 years to learn

[JuniperWoolf]

Really? I may be in the minority but if a man thinks he can do better elsewhere then go.

Yeah, me too. Being in a relationship is overrated. It gets pretty dull actually. I'd much rather be alone than change anything. I wonder why people even want to have mates. I guess there's the whole "children" thing, but you don't need a lifetime commitment for that... you just need one night of commitment.

[Scheherazade]

From the OP:

I agree with what you said, JBI. Whenever violence is inflicted upon women, there is a tendency to blame the victim, such as saying: “She asked for it”, or “You can't thread a moving needle.” By blaming the victim, it absolves the culpability of the offender. This protects the patriarchal structure of society, and thus, rationalizes sexual violence. A normal male would never attack an innocent female, and so SHE must have done something to provoke the man. This was illustrated by a case in Wisconsin. A judge sentenced a 24 year old man to 90 days' work release for raping a 5 year old girl. The judge said that the girl was “unusually promiscuous”, and that it was she who initiated sexual contact. Really?