Middlemarch Discussion

[Dark Muse]

I have decided to start reading Middlemarch and it seems like the kind of book that would be profitable and interesting to disscuss while reading, so I thought I would open this thread for any who may be interested.

There are no deadlines or due dates for reading, and you can join in at anytime and post as we read along. It is only asked if you have finnished the book to post SPOILER warnings if you will be giving anything away.

so enjoy!

[Nightshade]

Ive got it but I wont be joining in, I suffeerd enough through Danial Derronda. To have another Eliot so soon after.

[Dark Muse]

Ahh well that is a shame, for me this is my first time reading Eliot

[Dark Muse]

I find there is something quite compelling in Eliot's prose. I cannot quite put my finger on just what it is, but I find that I was quite quickly engaged and drawn into the story, and find there is a sort of elegance in the way in which she writes. At the same time there is also a great deal of complexity in her writing and it seems there are many layers within the story. It is difficult to fully comprehend all of the intricacies within the story. It is loaded with allusions and I find the strong religious overtones to be interesting. I also feel there is something comic within her writing, the characters and their interactions are quite humorous at times.

Dorothea is a most fascinating character I think and she herself is quite complex as well in some ways I feel contradictory. Though she seems like she would be annoying to say the least to know her in person, as a character it is difficult not to have some admiration to her for I find her to be so thoroughly interesting.

[Nightshade]

Obviously nott reading it, but as a note on Eliot, yes I think that of all of her works I have read, there tends to be a fair amout of religious overtones, I hink it probably comes from her upbringing.

[Albion]

Middlemarch is a story of great depth and psychological insight.
None of us know what the closing Georgian years (not Victorian) were like but I can believe George Eliot has captured the essence of the age of her youth and its social structures although set 40 years prior to writing.

In particular, she juxtaposes the genteel poverty of the Garths with the opulence of the Brooks and Chettams; the ardent desire of impoverished clergymen to minister to their parishioners contrasted with the smug Christianity of Bulstrode; and the entrapment of women within a man's world where they are unable to exert influence except by stifling their personalities in the roles of a servant or governess, or in marriage.

In her desire for achievement, Dorothea makes a burdensome marriage, Celia opts for convention, whilst Rosamund is blind to responsibility and Lydgate identifies too closely with Bulstrode.

George Eliot also revealingly portrays the conflicts suffered by the protagonists: Dorothea remains fiercely loyal to her husband although loving Ladislaw; Ladislaw disdains Casuabon but is reliant upon him financially; the practical Mary loves Fred but they have no money and she despises Fred's dreams of easy riches; despite Farebrother loving Mary he dutifully represents Fred to Mary; Lydgate is passionate about medical reform but his ambitions are dashed when he disastrously overstretches himself financially by his early marriage; Bulstrode is the epitome of rectitude but harbours a very dark secret.

There are also transformations: Dorothea through a disastrous marriage into a mature woman; Fred through a satisfying job into responsibility; Lydgate from idealism into the realities of an uncompromising world. George Eliot places these human dramas against a background of political and social reform to achieve a sense of change and movement.

The weaving of all these stories and their resolution is masterly. George Eliot describes the grand sweep of events and the detailed lives of her numerous characters with exactitude and persuasiveness.
There are tragedies and happy endings; love and innocence; romance and realism; riches and poverty.

It is ironic, however, that George Eliot relied for effect on her misunderstanding of the law of Wills: burning a will does not destroy its existence and the validity of Casuabon's precatory will is also doubtful.

The story is, nonetheless, compelling. The characters are, for me, real people (they still live in a secret world, somewhere) with real desires, faults, ambitions and duties. There are wonderful human examples: not least Mary and Dorothea, Caleb Garth and Lydgate; but I reserve my greatest admiration for Harriett Bulstrode who proves how love transcends disaster.

Who are the main protagonists of this story? Certainly Dorothea but Fred and Mary, with Lydgate, are very close seconds. Readers will identify with their ambitions and live the setbacks with them. My disappointment was that the book had to end; but 900 pages offers a treasury of delight. This book is a social commentary as well as several love stories. Do not rush: it deserves to be read slowly over several months.

[fb0252]

Henry James, the Henry James, writes an interesting review in the Norton Edition of Middlemarch. Several, including James, point to shortcomings in the book and Eliot's writing, while praising it. I read Middlemarch some time ago, and recall its superb themes of the dynamics of marriage. It is memorable, but also something uneasy about it. Mary Ann Evans was anything but religious, which makes perception of religious themes ironic. I'm thinking those with a higher I.Q., me excluded, might get more out of this sort of highly intelligent writing. I certainly enjoyed it, but as you go on there is a certain "machine gun" quality of ever raining down thoughts coming at you like bullets. This lady has a never ending didactic style to which I developed a certain resistance. You marvel at the insights and her ability but you also commence to figure out an irritating, depressing pattern to the metaphors. James faulted the book for failure to lead the characters to an appropriate conclusion. Must reading, with a powerful ending!

[Janine]

I should read the book eventually, since I own the BBC miniseries and I love the story. It's sort of Dickenish at times with quirky character; but with much more depth and layering, referring more to the main characters; and Dorthea is very significant in her (progressive for the times) ideas. I believe she personified Elliot herself. I think the most complex of the characters is her husband. He is very strange and yet you can begin to understand where he is coming from with his obsessive study of old texts; underneath his facade he is only human. I'm sure I would enjoy reading the book. It's on my 'must read' list.

[Dark Muse]

I started out liking Casuban but than after a while I just cannot stand him anymore, though I personally do not find anything complex about his character, I find his is one of the simplest characters in the story as he doesn't really change at all, it just becomes more and more obnoxious in the way he treats Dorothea. He just turns out to be a pathetic old man jealous of his younger nephew because of the things that his nephew accomplished that he cannot achieve with his own life because he is as dusty as his books and cannot accept that everything he dedicated his life to is just one big failure and he takes it out upon his wife in an immature and unbecoming way.

[fb0252]

possibly the BBC series treats Causabon with greater kindness than the book, in the short clip I saw.

[Dark Muse]

Yes, that is possible as I have not seen the mini-series. But in the book there really isn't any sympathetic view of him, as well as a character he doesn't really develop or change much in a way to make him particularly complicated or interesting. He just grows increasingly more bitter and it is drawn primarily from the fact that he has been pretty much wasting all his time on his life's work because he is too stuck in archaic systems that no one cares about anymore but he cannot accept this fact. So he misuses his nephew out of personal jealousy of his own rising Intellectual career and lashes out against Dorothea whose only wish and desire was to be a good and loyal wife and learn from his wisdom. But he ends up pushing her away and his meanness and pettiness are what ultimately cause Dorothea to develop feelings for Casuban's nephew, but even so she never actually acts out in anyway that is unfaithful to her husband.

[Veho]

I agree with Dark Muse respecting Causabon, and I do think the BBC production softens his less agreeable qualities. As someone said, Dorothea remains loyal to him throughout their marriage and he repays her with suspicion and (SPOILER) the clause in his will is evidence of this.

[Dark Muse]

I agree with Dark Muse respecting Causabon, and I do think the BBC production softens his less agreeable qualities. As someone said, Dorothea remains loyal to him throughout their marriage and he repays her with suspicion and (SPOILER) the clause in his will is evidence of this.

Yes, and ultimately Doothea's reputation becomes scandalilized within the town becasue of that unfair clause. It was a last jabbing act of spite against his wife and his own kin.

[Janine]

I agree with Dark Muse respecting Causabon, and I do think the BBC production softens his less agreeable qualities. As someone said, Dorothea remains loyal to him throughout their marriage and he repays her with suspicion and (SPOILER) the clause in his will is evidence of this.

Actually, the first time I saw the BBC production, I felt only hatred and was outraged towards Causbon. I guess on additional viewings, I began to see something more, because I kept saying to myself "what did Dorothea first see in him that others could not?" I do think you probably are right, that the series treats his character a bit more softly. I could not forgive his last action, which I will not mention, since it would spoil the book for readers. If anything, in the film version I began to feel revulsion but also some bit of pity; because Causbon was truly obsessive with his old world texts and studies and he was quite pathetic. He actually was a sad character himself and therefore he didn't really know how to relate to a wife. He is the type man should never be married at all. Perhaps the actor, Patrick Malahide, came across differently from the novel. I have seen him now in several productions and he is a fine actor; even though most times one feels very negative about the character he is portraying. He seems to play those type character roles.

[Veho]

Actually, the first time I saw the BBC production, I felt only hatred and was outraged towards Causbon. I guess on additional viewings, I began to see something more, because I kept saying to myself "what did Dorothea first see in him that others could not?" I do think you probably are right, that the series treats his character a bit more softly. I could not forgive his last action, which I will not mention, since it would spoil the book for readers. If anything, in the film version I began to feel revulsion but also some bit of pity; because Causbon was truly obsessive with his old world texts and studies and he was quite pathetic. He actually was a sad character himself and therefore he didn't really know how to relate to a wife. He is the type man should never be married at all. Perhaps the actor, Patrick Malahide, came across differently from the novel. I have seen him now in several productions and he is a fine actor; even though most times one feels very negative about the character he is portraying. He seems to play those type character roles.

I agree that he inspires pity, but pity is all, I think. I don't feel any sympathy towards him. Ultimately he is selfish, not necessarily with his money, but with his time and his affections. But that is not necessarily all his fault, I think Dorothea was very naive in marrying him, but then he did pursue her and propose marriage.