The Collector

[Zee.]

Okay so.. wow.

I'm not very far in to this book but it is so, so beautiful..

and intriguing! i have not read a book like this in a very long time.

I have not finished, and i'm nearing half way, but.. yeah, wow.
What fascinates me is the power Miranda has. She has been captured and yet, she has this overwhelming power over the man who has captured her..

Frederick Clegg - i feel sorry for him. I feel like giving him a hug. It feels weird feeling sorry for him. I felt the same "sadness" towards Alex from "A clockwork orange"

That is another thing i noticed. Clegg often uses the word "like" in a similar context to Alex. For example, there's a part near the beginning where Clegg says that Miranda " like stunned me ". There are quite a few instances like this throughout the novel - I don't know, I just found it interesting.


I don't really know the point of this thread.

[Paulclem]

Okay so.. wow.

I'm not very far in to this book but it is so, so beautiful..

and intriguing! i have not read a book like this in a very long time.

I have not finished, and i'm nearing half way, but.. yeah, wow.
What fascinates me is the power Miranda has. She has been captured and yet, she has this overwhelming power over the man who has captured her..

Frederick Clegg - i feel sorry for him. I feel like giving him a hug. It feels weird feeling sorry for him. I felt the same "sadness" towards Alex from "A clockwork orange"

That is another thing i noticed. Clegg often uses the word "like" in a similar context to Alex. For example, there's a part near the beginning where Clegg says that Miranda " like stunned me ". There are quite a few instances like this throughout the novel - I don't know, I just found it interesting.


I don't really know the point of this thread.

I think that's the power of the book. It does change though later. You won't feel sorry for him. That's what makes it very creepy - the sympathy it can evoke for wht turns out to be a complete psycho.

[Zee.]

He's fascinating. Childlike, almost, at the beginning at least. He is illogical and hopeless, but cruel? maybe in his ignorance. But is he ignorant? is he not aware of how he is killing her? she makes a comment about his ability to kill beauty - but I don't know, he is such a confusing character. I'm torn between my feelings about him.

What is absolutely amazing, is how he tries to make sense of a situation that is completely crazy to the reader. I mean - the way we see a scenario in the book, in comparison to how he sees it is really interesting. For instance, there is a part where they are arguing, and she sees him as this cruel, monster, and says terrible things to him. At the end of the argument he makes an affectionate comment about how "couples" argue. He is so deluded and brainwashed by his own fantasies.


Also - Miranda, what an amazing character. I've never read a book that has a character I can identify so strongly with before.

[Paulclem]

He's fascinating. Childlike, almost, at the beginning at least. He is illogical and hopeless, but cruel? maybe in his ignorance. But is he ignorant? is he not aware of how he is killing her? she makes a comment about his ability to kill beauty - but I don't know, he is such a confusing character. I'm torn between my feelings about him.

It's the ordinariness of his character, his ordinary delusions, that pull the reader closer to him. This makes it an uncomfortable read as the situation is played out - the line between ordinary and evil. It reminds me of aspects of the description of the holocaust by Hannah Arendt who described it as the banality of evil.

[Helga]

this is my favourite book, I read it for an English class a few years ago and from the first page I thought it was beautiful and, not to spoil anything, I thought it just got more beautiful even though it got a bit crueler. his love and adoration is so amazing and his life sad. I loved it more when my teacher said that Fowles once said he based it on a real fantasy he had and after reading his biography I now know he had these fantasies about the princess, Margaret I think.

when we were discussing this book and when my teacher was telling us about it everybody thought it was so ugly and mean and disgusting and they all said that I was crazy or stupid because I only saw the beauty, even my teacher said she thought it was so ugly that at a certain part she threw it at the wall she was so mad about how mean he was. But after reading my essay were I focused on the beauty and their relationship she said that she understood but disagreed. I was nervous about writing the essay that way because I thought she wouldn't like it because she disagreed but she did like my point of view.

I loved how he tried to be good enough for her but his accent and his behaviour made him invisible to her. I didn't like the movie though, the actress didn't fit for the role. this is my favourite of Fowles books and it inspired me a lot.

Limajean you said you could identify with Miranda, I always felt like I understood more how Clegg was feeling and why.... Miranda just annoyed me for the most part, she wasn't all bad but something about her couldn't make me feel very sorry for her...

[dfloyd]

with Terrance Stamp I believe. I admired John Fowles as an author. He wasn't all that prolific, but what he did write was good. I believe he passed away a few years ago. It's been so long since I saw the movie that I would like to see it again.

[Zee.]

this is my favourite book, I read it for an English class a few years ago and from the first page I thought it was beautiful and, not to spoil anything, I thought it just got more beautiful even though it got a bit crueler. his love and adoration is so amazing and his life sad. I loved it more when my teacher said that Fowles once said he based it on a real fantasy he had and after reading his biography I now know he had these fantasies about the princess, Margaret I think.

when we were discussing this book and when my teacher was telling us about it everybody thought it was so ugly and mean and disgusting and they all said that I was crazy or stupid because I only saw the beauty, even my teacher said she thought it was so ugly that at a certain part she threw it at the wall she was so mad about how mean he was. But after reading my essay were I focused on the beauty and their relationship she said that she understood but disagreed. I was nervous about writing the essay that way because I thought she wouldn't like it because she disagreed but she did like my point of view.

I loved how he tried to be good enough for her but his accent and his behaviour made him invisible to her. I didn't like the movie though, the actress didn't fit for the role. this is my favourite of Fowles books and it inspired me a lot.

Limajean you said you could identify with Miranda, I always felt like I understood more how Clegg was feeling and why.... Miranda just annoyed me for the most part, she wasn't all bad but something about her couldn't make me feel very sorry for her...

Hey Helga,
yes I identify with her in the way she views things, the way she sees her situation, the fact that she is an artist, and so on. I find it interesting how "calm" she is too.

Clegg - I loved him. I mean, what he did, it wasn't good, there's no justifying it, but he was not mean and he was not cruel. It was wrong for him to catch her, like his butterflies, and keep her like that - but aren't we all trying to do that, to something? in some way or another? She was so beautiful that he had to have her. Collect her. And yeah, it was wrong, but I understand him. I loved how he treated her so well, and with such decency, and how.. although it made no sense, to keep something you loved locked up - it was clear all he wanted was to keep her, as a friend, to talk to and to watch. I really admire how Fowles didn't destroy the story by adding heavy sexual themes in to it. They're definitely there, but they aren't in your face.

I don't know - there is something so beautiful about this book. It has a lot of tenderness to it, and presents the reader with something, that on face value, seems hard to understand, and forces us to put aside certain feelings. The way he acts makes me feel like crying sometimes, i just feel so sorry for him.

[Paulclem]

Hmmm - doesn't he eventually take pornographic photos of his captive? I think what he does outweighs the nice aspects of his character. Is the polite side of him an act covering a creepy, dangerous man?

[Saladin]

I first heard about this novel after watching this to-parts episodes in the tv-show Criminal Minds (The Fisher Kng part I and II). It`s in my readinglist.

[Zee.]

Hmmm - doesn't he eventually take pornographic photos of his captive? I think what he does outweighs the nice aspects of his character. Is the polite side of him an act covering a creepy, dangerous man?

I'm up to part two - Miranda's part. I assume that at the end of Part one..


spoiler..spoiler..spoiler....














she died.

Yes he does take pornographic shots of her. The turn in his character was a bit earlier on i think. When he suddenly made comments about him being the boss, and was saying he was fed up with her, etc.
I mean - what he did was wrong to begin with, but he was decent, at least at the beginning of the novel. His character then took a nasty, and quite unexpected turn.

well, no, i can't say it was unexpected

I was watching a documentary about these two serial killers that built a house in the woods where they kept women as sex slaves. It was absolutely brutal and disgusting.
They called it "Operation Miranda" because they were inspired by The Collector.

[Paulclem]

Through the book I got the impression that Fowles was messing with the reader's mind all he time. Giving a psycho a nice-ness which is undecut by the act and facts. It is an interesting and disturbing book. Beneath the sheen of politeness lurks menace. It might makes you look askance at Mr Good -Mornng-Lovely-Day that you might see on the way to the shops.

I was watching a documentary about these two serial killers that built a house in the woods where they kept women as sex slaves. It was absolutely brutal and disgusting.
They called it "Operation Miranda" because they were inspired by The Collector.

Just imagine the hoo-hah if they had claimed film or video game had inspired them.

Unfortunately they would have found something to be inspired by if not The Collector. I don't believe that kind of act comes from an external source, but is fundamentally fom their own impulses. They are just waiting for an outlet.

[Zee.]

Oh no of course. They were psychopaths. But the whole idea of capturing women and locking them up - they decided to call that "Operation Miranda" and the book yeah, it inspired them. Obviously it wasn't what motivated them. Things run a lot deeper than that.


Hmm, Paul, have you read any other books of his? how do they compare?

[Mathor]

That is another thing i noticed. Clegg often uses the word "like" in a similar context to Alex. For example, there's a part near the beginning where Clegg says that Miranda " like stunned me ". There are quite a few instances like this throughout the novel - I don't know, I just found it interesting.
.

Haha, from habit I say "like" a lot in written things like msn chat and stuff. It pisses most people off.

[Paulclem]

Oh no of course. They were psychopaths. But the whole idea of capturing women and locking them up - they decided to call that "Operation Miranda" and the book yeah, it inspired them. Obviously it wasn't what motivated them. Things run a lot deeper than that.


Hmm, Paul, have you read any other books of his? how do they compare?

I read The Magus, but it was a long time ago. It is very different - set on a Greek Island. it has a pschological theme as an experiment is being run whereby an elaborate play takes place which casts the main character in WW2. I'm afraid I was a lot younger and didn't get the deeper themes, but it was an interesting read.

[Jozanny]

Thanks for bringing this Fowles title to my attention. I need some captivating bed reading, and most of my personal library just isn't suited to bedsore prevention down time. I know that sounds puzzling but I hate typical commercial thrillers and modernists and other difficult writers demand too much attention when I am in repose.