What Would Happen If It Were Only Eve?

[Beautifull]

i was thinking today that maybe men think that eve's decisions reflect every woman, so they think they have to boss the lady around. is that true guys?

[weltanschauung]

im just saying what christianity taught us.

[Beautifull]

im just saying what christianity taught us.

so....basically, women have more sin in them, so it gives men a right to put them under control?

[Maximilianus]

ironically, the social difference between a christian female and a muslim one is indeed inversely proportional to their supposed guilt veredict in the genesis.

frankly, i dont see whats so frigging evil about eating an apple and then sharing it.
it actually makes no sense that this big person god all religions talk about would put a fridge in paradise and then go 'but dont open it or else'...
i have a lot of trouble in considering this prankster god as the maker of our reality and considering his acts as koans of wisdom. he seems more like a silly younger brother who suffers from periodic fits. and then goes to his older brother's room and breaks stuff.

Same opinion as mine!

Put a fridge in paradise and people will want to look inside, and that's normal curiosity according to human nature. If a god doesn't want a being to feel curious then... why torture them with temptations? ... oh yeah, some may say "because he loves you".

i was thinking today that maybe men think that eve's decisions reflect every woman, so they think they have to boss the lady around. is that true guys?

Not at all. I believe in team work. Eve, if there ever was such an apple-lusty sinning woman, was only one and cannot be a measure for all women

so....basically, women have more sin in them, so it gives men a right to put them under control?

What welt is saying since some posts above is that Christianity taught us that women are the source of all evil, and I believe that anyone with at least two neurons for a brain can find out that true evil comes from a variety of sources.

[Beautifull]

Same opinion as mine!

What welt is saying since some posts above is that Christianity taught us that women are the source of all evil,

men assume the worst...

[Maximilianus]

men assume the worst...

That is often true... but we are not all like that. Some of us are very fond of ladies, so when someone says "women and evil are the same" I pay them one of my most scornful looks, because I know it's not true and I can prove it. Often, retrograde societies have tried to make it true, but of course, it's an utter misconception of the feminine nature.

[JBI]

okay, i understand the 'apple' part...

but god did punish Eve. Look at Gen 3:16, and you'll see that since she was the first to eat of the fruit, because she got Adam to eat of it, he made the woman subject to man. he also cursed her to bear children in pain. He did care what Eve did b/c she influenced Adam, b/c he made Eve as an helpmeet to him. Eve was made for Adam. But he listened to the woman that God made for him. He says in Gen 3:12 "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate." In other words, Adam blamed Eve and God.

Just think for a moment that Eve wasn't in the picture, man wouldn't have eaten of the tree...I believe Eve was in God's attention. just because God didn't say straight out, "I curse you" doesn't mean what he said when He addressed her was not a curse.

I'll address this response, though there were a couple more saying similar things.

Eve is not cursed or punished - the language of the original is very different than most translations, but what is actually said to her is not a curse, and is not an uttered punishment, but rather a revelation - the language of address god uses is not one he uses to punish, and he never attempts to - what actually is said is the "knowledge" as gotten by the tree - that women are inherently born with this high chance of death through childbirth - the difficulty of labor is just part of it, the actual death rate of women in childbirth at this time was giant - but, perhaps more savagely, they will still desire to undergo such ordeals, because of a submission to the man, but also to her physical desires and instincts - keep in mind - the enlightenment was millennia away.

God is not punishing Eve, merely "saying it as it is", if you will - it is misogynist, and quite crude, but it is there. The problem I think is that the King James and most subsequent translations, translate the lines improperly:

Unto the woman he said,

I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception;
in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;
and thy desire shall be to thy husband,
and he shall rule over thee.



The greatly multiply bit is an additive for effect, or perhaps a misreading. Harbah arbeh is more like "you will have a great deal", idiomatically - it isn't actually "I will multiply" - it isn't a punishment, and not intended to be, it is a consequence of the actions as would occur.

The whole story then, is tied in with the sense of sexual awakening - the consciousness that Adam and Eve have of each other, as sexual beings. What that implies is sex as a factor of importance, and, through sex comes reproduction, and through reproduction, ultimately, especially at this time, a painful process that often kills the mother, the child, or both.

[Nightshade]

The whole story then, is tied in with the sense of sexual awakening - the consciousness that Adam and Eve have of each other, as sexual beings. What that implies is sex as a factor of importance, and, through sex comes reproduction, and through reproduction, ultimately, especially at this time, a painful process that often kills the mother, the child, or both.

Which is where the found they were naked and became emabressed and covered themselves with fig leaves comes into it, right?

[JBI]

Which is where the found they were naked and became emabressed and covered themselves with fig leaves comes into it, right?

exactly.

[Judas130]

Milton expresses that the fiction (for that is what it is) is symbolic of love, in that Adam follows the intoxicated and flushed Eve in rebellion against God's order - because he cannot bear to be parted with her, or be with some other women made from his rib:

"and me with thee hath ruined, for with thee / certain my resolution is to die; / how can I live without thee..."
"should God create another Eve, and I / Another rib afford, yet loss of thee..."

The Story of Adam and Eve is also symbolic of marriage, concepts of 'one flesh' or 'one body' as both are same. An idea of Milton's from paradise lost that may support JBI's idea that Eve has been awakened to death in childbirth and the knowledge of such:

"Of knowledge, nor was godhead from her thought. / Greedily she engorged without restraint, / and knew not eating death: satiate at length'

peace

[Beautifull]

That is often true... but we are not all like that. Some of us are very fond of ladies, so when someone says "women and evil are the same" I pay them one of my most scornful looks, because I know it's not true and I can prove it. Often, retrograde societies have tried to make it true, but of course, it's an utter misconception of the feminine nature.

thank you for sticking up for the femenist's nature.

[Maximilianus]

thank you for sticking up for the femenist's nature.

Anytime and always

[Beautifull]

how did you know Lot's wife turned to salt if Lot couldn't turn back to see?

[Maximilianus]

how did you know Lot's wife turned to salt if Lot couldn't turn back to see?

As a man of science would say: "that's a most thrilling question"... and one of his colleagues would reply "let's debate about the matter"... and another one (suppose we are in old Britain) would say "Capital!"

[Beautifull]

As a man of science would say: "that's a most thrilling question"... and one of his colleagues would reply "let's debate about the matter"... and another one (suppose we are in old Britain) would say "Capital!"

yeah, someone brought that up to me while we were discussing Biblical Allusions...and I couldn't answer them.