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Thread: What Would Happen If It Were Only Eve?

  1. #1
    Just call me Beau! Beautifull's Avatar
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    What Would Happen If It Were Only Eve?

    okay, so in Genesis, it said that Adam and Eve were trown out of the garden for eating the fruit....idk if this was brought up or not, but i'm wondering what would've happened if it were only Eve that ate of the fruit...

    some say they wouldn't be thrown out b/c God only told Adam and it was up to Adam to tell Eve, but some would say they would b/c one of them ate it and God said no eating it...

    so what do you think?
    Find your dream and stick with it...or your life will have slipped past in a whisper with you still on the bottom.

  2. #2
    I think the theological discussion is that God told Adam to rule and guard, that he was in charge of all creation that meant he was responsible and that if any rule breaking occurred, it would fall to Adam as the supervisor. Also, I think the story is that he did eat it, but even if he didn’t it was his responsibility to guard it.

    Kind of like when something heinous takes place in a department, it is not unusual for the director of the department to be fired along with the evil-doer.

    But I think the interesting question here is actually, could they have understood? Had Adam or Even ever been told, "No" before? If not, how could they possible understand that consequences would follow and what they might be? Later this is seen in the story of Cain and Able, Cain is not sentenced to death because he may not have had any idea that he killed Able or what that might mean. Had he ever experienced (seen, heard of) death?

    These are just questions and thoughts, not positions or a religious posture.

    ~L
    I'd rather have questions that I can't answer than answers that I can't question.

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    Bibliophile JBI's Avatar
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    Nothing - Eve wasn't punished for eating the apple, so it can be assumed that God didn't care, as I guess her position as "woman" put her as not worth being noticed.

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    Just call me Beau! Beautifull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBI View Post
    Nothing - Eve wasn't punished for eating the apple, so it can be assumed that God didn't care, as I guess her position as "woman" put her as not worth being noticed.
    one, how can you be so sure it was an apple?
    two, Eve was punished, that's the reason women have bear the children?
    three, God did care, why did he tell Adam, of all the trees you can eat of except that one?
    four, Adam noticed her, didn't he? he ate because she ate.
    Find your dream and stick with it...or your life will have slipped past in a whisper with you still on the bottom.

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    I think we can't know because we were not there, so we can't know for sure who forbid whom to do what.

    On the other hand I can make the following assumption: If you are a god and don't want ANY of your critters to eat a certain fruit, then you can either warn them one by one, OR you can set a written warning in front of the fruit so EVERY single one of YOUR critters can read the warning. Now, if YOU are a god who provided YOUR critters with free will, and after that YOU pretend to forbid them this or that, and because of the free will YOU gave them they disobey, then it's YOUR fault for having contradictory directives. Just pondering: in this case, wouldn't a fair god then pack all personal stuff and throw himself out of his own garden?

    Now, I myself am very far from being a god but, as imperfect as I am, I don't blame others for MY mistakes... basically... because they are MINE.

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    Just call me Beau! Beautifull's Avatar
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    i think he was just giving them a choice. it does say that he made them in his own image, but what i don't get is, why would you make something in your own image if you know what they're going to do? idk if it's in the bible, but i heard that God knows exactly what we are going to do.

    but some people say it's adam's fault b/c God told him. If that's true, then i balme Eve for listening to that stupid serpent.
    Find your dream and stick with it...or your life will have slipped past in a whisper with you still on the bottom.

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    Bibliophile JBI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautifull View Post
    one, how can you be so sure it was an apple?
    two, Eve was punished, that's the reason women have bear the children?
    three, God did care, why did he tell Adam, of all the trees you can eat of except that one?
    four, Adam noticed her, didn't he? he ate because she ate.
    As for the Apple bit - I just conceptualize it as an apple, because of tradition, though the great Torah Scholar Rashi thought it most likely to have been a pomegranate, based on the tradition.

    The point though is, God doesn't punish Eve, just Adam - that is something which is often lost in translation, but which Jewish scholars picked up years and years ago - he merely addresses her, he doesn't curse her like he does the snake or Adam, and the reason is, she already is born with the so called "Curse" inside her - that of being female, and therefore lesser (as Milton put it, he for God and she for God in him) and subjected to the will of man.

    It is Adam that gets punished, because, quite simply, God doesn't care what Eve does, as long as she serves Adam - he, I would argue, and Adam, regard Eve as being lesser, similar to the Job's dismissal of his wife's advice. But it is that Adam decided to eat with Eve, rather than to listen to God which caused the problem - that Adam would decide to listen to "that women" over his father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautifull View Post
    i heard that God knows exactly what we are going to do.
    If you possess a feature called "free will", then you don't follow a pattern, therefore you're unpredictable, therefore no one can say what you're going to do. People are like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get
    Quote Originally Posted by Beautifull View Post
    but some people say it's adam's fault b/c God told him. If that's true, then i balme Eve for listening to that stupid serpent.
    Supposing it to be true, we all listen to a serpent at least once in our lifespan. We cannot be perfect.... wow! I'm spotting a couple snakes heading right my way now... I'll make myself a pair of shoes with their skins, before I listen to whatever they have to say ...

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    Registered User mona amon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBI View Post
    As for the Apple bit - I just conceptualize it as an apple, because of tradition, though the great Torah Scholar Rashi thought it most likely to have been a pomegranate, based on the tradition.

    The point though is, God doesn't punish Eve, just Adam - that is something which is often lost in translation, but which Jewish scholars picked up years and years ago - he merely addresses her, he doesn't curse her like he does the snake or Adam, and the reason is, she already is born with the so called "Curse" inside her - that of being female, and therefore lesser (as Milton put it, he for God and she for God in him) and subjected to the will of man.

    It is Adam that gets punished, because, quite simply, God doesn't care what Eve does, as long as she serves Adam - he, I would argue, and Adam, regard Eve as being lesser, similar to the Job's dismissal of his wife's advice. But it is that Adam decided to eat with Eve, rather than to listen to God which caused the problem - that Adam would decide to listen to "that women" over his father.
    God does punish Eve, even if he doesn't curse her. Her punishment is labour pains and having to be ruled over by the man. But until that point I'd say she was equal to man, created, like man, in God's own image. It doesn't seem likely that someone made in the image of God would have a 'curse' inside her.
    Last edited by mona amon; 08-02-2009 at 10:49 AM.
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    spiritus ubi vult spirat weltanschauung's Avatar
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    the materialistic and literal interpretation of "religious" SYMBOLOGY is the genesis of philosophical error.

  11. #11
    Yes it is a story, it may be allegorical, it may be spiritually inspired truth, it may be a handed down history whose words have changed along with time and language.

    A piece of forbidden fruit...commonly depicted as an apple… but, it is not the fruit that is the objective, rather it is the fact that the fruit is forbidden, and yet…it is tasted.

    It was childbirth with pain that was Eve’s punishment.
    I'd rather have questions that I can't answer than answers that I can't question.

  12. #12
    Just call me Beau! Beautifull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBI View Post
    As for the Apple bit - I just conceptualize it as an apple, because of tradition, though the great Torah Scholar Rashi thought it most likely to have been a pomegranate, based on the tradition.

    The point though is, God doesn't punish Eve, just Adam - that is something which is often lost in translation, but which Jewish scholars picked up years and years ago - he merely addresses her, he doesn't curse her like he does the snake or Adam, and the reason is, she already is born with the so called "Curse" inside her - that of being female, and therefore lesser (as Milton put it, he for God and she for God in him) and subjected to the will of man.

    It is Adam that gets punished, because, quite simply, God doesn't care what Eve does, as long as she serves Adam - he, I would argue, and Adam, regard Eve as being lesser, similar to the Job's dismissal of his wife's advice. But it is that Adam decided to eat with Eve, rather than to listen to God which caused the problem - that Adam would decide to listen to "that women" over his father.
    okay, i understand the 'apple' part...

    but god did punish Eve. Look at Gen 3:16, and you'll see that since she was the first to eat of the fruit, because she got Adam to eat of it, he made the woman subject to man. he also cursed her to bear children in pain. He did care what Eve did b/c she influenced Adam, b/c he made Eve as an helpmeet to him. Eve was made for Adam. But he listened to the woman that God made for him. He says in Gen 3:12 "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate." In other words, Adam blamed Eve and God.

    Just think for a moment that Eve wasn't in the picture, man wouldn't have eaten of the tree...I believe Eve was in God's attention. just because God didn't say straight out, "I curse you" doesn't mean what he said when He addressed her was not a curse.
    Find your dream and stick with it...or your life will have slipped past in a whisper with you still on the bottom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMK View Post

    It was childbirth with pain that was Eve’s punishment.
    exactly my point.
    Find your dream and stick with it...or your life will have slipped past in a whisper with you still on the bottom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMK View Post
    it may be a handed down history whose words have changed along with time and language.
    This is one of the reasons why I think we'll never know what really happened. Besides we should remember that too many a time translations are, for different reasons, inaccurate.
    Quote Originally Posted by LMK View Post
    It was childbirth with pain that was Eve’s punishment.
    Supposing this was actually a form of punishment, I believe it's too much for just biting an apple. What kind of pain should a rapist and serial killer be punished with?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilianus View Post
    Supposing this was actually a form of punishment, I believe it's too much for just biting an apple. What kind of pain should a rapist and serial killer be punished with?
    I might agree with that, given, as I've stated before neither Adam nor Eve (as far as we know) would have any understanding of what "forbidden" meant or that punishment of any kind would follow.

    What kind of pain should a rapist and serial killer be punished with?
    Well, since the punishment did not seem to relate to the deed, it might not necessarily be anything like death by inches or castration, but perhaps dwelling in the pit of a latrine ditch.

    ~L
    I'd rather have questions that I can't answer than answers that I can't question.

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