"In Cold Blood" Group Reading

[Scheherazade]

I am not suggesting they are homosexual nor am I claiming that there is a sexual aspect to their relationship but that does not rule out a liking towards someone from their own sex.

[Zee.]

Well you did say "homosexual" undertones, and i don't think that's a switch that can be turned off and on in someone's head in regards to that. But yeah, i should have reworded my comment a bit differently.

[sixsmith]

I quite liked the book though i thought that Capote was often condescending in his portrayal of Perry Smith and some of the Holcomb locals. As such, the effect of these portrayals was somewhat undermined.

[grapes of wrath]

Firstly, hello to everyone. I came across this website last week and found this invitation to this group reading, so I couldn't help registering and start reading the novel.
It takes me time as I am reading it comparing the original text with the Italian translation and I am also listening to the audiobook (very well read, actually).
I read the first 50 pages and I have already quarrelled with my husband who commented: "But that's not fiction". Another reason for divorce. I thought.
I realized that this opinion was shared by more eminent people, as I found in an article on the New York Times, which announced his death at 59, in 1984.. A critic said: ''this isn't writing, it's research'' , quoting Capote's critique, yearls earlier, of Jack Kerouac: ''This isn't writing, it's typing.''
I know that he made meticulous research and he was kind of obsessed by the fact, but these 50 pages are pure literature, in my opinion.

[Sapphire]

I had forgotten all about this thread Now it's been a while since I finished (and started ) this book. I am not sure what to say about it...

One would think that knowing how a story would take something away from it a little but Capote is very masterfully setting up the scene

Indeed, it really grabbed me and made me want to read on and on and on. Not to know what happened next, but to know how it happened. To figure out all the ... well, not the gruesome details but definitely the (motivational) details. It also annoyed me a bit, made me want to read faster than I actually could as I had to know how it went - the characters already knew and I did not! Well, not all the characters :bonk: I do not really know how to describe it...
Lets just say that I speeded through the book Sometimes I wanted Capote to quit describing what Perry was thinking about, and just get on with telling "what really happened on that fateful night/morning".

Are there homosexual undertones to Perry and Dick's relationship?

If there are, I did not catch up on them. Perry is however searching for a friend, somebody who he can confide in, somebody who can be there for him - who he can share his thoughts with. Think for example how he bonded with the priest in prison... To me it seems rather like Perry searches for a friend (male) than a lover (male or female). He wants to be appreciated.

I have a question for people who've already read the whole book: I can not really figure out the motto. It's in French, so the first step of course was to translate it:

Human brothers who live after us
Don't have your hearts towards us hardened
Because, if pity of poor us you have
God will sooner have mercy on you

Why did Capote choose this as a motto to the book? Does he wants us to have mercy with the killers?! Mercy with the victims? Mercy with... anybody involved?
I personally think the motto does breath the spirit of the whole book: it's a recording of a murder, with regards to everybody involved. Except maybe the victims - there's no real empathy on their feelings as the murders itself are mostly betrayed from the eyes of the killers. But we do get an idea about how they lived and what kind of people they were. And making such a "study" of the murderers might make the reader think, think how randomly the decision between live and dead is made and how they became murderers without intent (without really caring too). So... mercy or not?
It's also written a bit ... I can't find the word: it is not asking you for mercy out of the goodness of your heart, but as a trade. If you give mercy now, God will sooner have mercy on you. It tries to buy our mercy... Have mercy because it is good for YOU.

And I wonder: is there anybody else who would not have mind if the book had ended after "the Answer"? I did read the 4th part "the Corner", but it really did not add anything to the story for me. Just a lame description of the ending days/years of the criminals...

[motherhubbard]

I have a question for people who've already read the whole book: I can not really figure out the motto. It's in French, so the first step of course was to translate it:

Human brothers who live after us
Don't have your hearts towards us hardened
Because, if pity of poor us you have
God will sooner have mercy on you

Why did Capote choose this as a motto to the book? Does he wants us to have mercy with the killers?! Mercy with the victims? Mercy with... anybody involved?
I personally think the motto does breath the spirit of the whole book: it's a recording of a murder, with regards to everybody involved. Except maybe the victims - there's no real empathy on their feelings as the murders itself are mostly betrayed from the eyes of the killers. But we do get an idea about how they lived and what kind of people they were. And making such a "study" of the murderers might make the reader think, think how randomly the decision between live and dead is made and how they became murderers without intent (without really caring too). So... mercy or not?
It's also written a bit ... I can't find the word: it is not asking you for mercy out of the goodness of your heart, but as a trade. If you give mercy now, God will sooner have mercy on you. It tries to buy our mercy... Have mercy because it is good for YOU.

I thought that Capote made this family very personable. Their character, beliefs, potential, hopes, problems, and place in the community were all well developed. These were the kinds of people many of us would like to be. He does this so that we can feel the impact of loosing them. But, I think this story is not so much about their lives as it is about their deaths and how they came to die which means that it is more a story of how the murders came to kill. Saying some small time crooks killed a family for 40 bucks and a radio doesn't do justice to the crime. I think he explains how these unrelated lives were brought together by little more than coincidence. Of course I felt incredibly sorry for the loss of the family and for what they suffered on their last night. I don't think he down played that at all. I think that the motto is meant to make us consider the evil inside of us. Under the right (or wrong) circumstances we are all capable of more than we may think. He wants us to see all of the people involved as human.

I felt sympathy for the killers; Perry more than Dick. There were so many opportunities for things to go differently. I spent a great deal of time considering nature vs. nurture. Perry is an example of nurture and Dick is an example of nature. Perry's past makes me sad for him. I have to ask myself if I would turn out like Perry or his sister if I had been raised in the same circumstances, or like his other two siblings. Dick had a stability in his upbringing, but was always trouble.

I think that there are just a lot of things to look at when considering the murders. Did their physical appearance have any impact of their personality? Dick was charming and made a good con man while Perry was Native/Irish and would have been suspicious looking for many Midwestern people in the 1950's. I think he tried to compensate for his height and small legs by building his upper body strength. He was uncomfortable with women, but the charming Nick was not.. I think it's interesting that Perry had a problem with people who could not control themselves sexually, but he's the one who pulled the trigger. Dick would have raped the girl without a second thought, but when it came down to killing he wasn't able to even though he's the one who insisted on no witnesses.

And I wonder: is there anybody else who would not have mind if the book had ended after "the Answer"? I did read the 4th part "the Corner", but it really did not add anything to the story for me. Just a lame description of the ending days/years of the criminals...

I liked the ending. I like to know what happens to everyone and how it came to pass. I think that The Corner offered more insight to the characters of the townspeople, the offenders, and their families. I think that it's interesting to consider this aspect of the story. Murder doesn't end with conviction. My husband's first murder case was 14 years ago and it crept up for most of a decade. The entire process tells us something about what kind of people we are.

[PoeticPassions]

I definitely think there is some homoeroticism in the story. If you watch the movie adaptation, this becomes even more clear.

Maybe Capote comes across in this (adds a bit of his own perception), as he was gay himself, or maybe there truly is something to it... But there is an, at times, interesting relationship between Perry and Dick.

[Scheherazade]

I quite liked the book though i thought that Capote was often condescending in his portrayal of Perry Smith and some of the Holcomb locals. As such, the effect of these portrayals was somewhat undermined.

Could you give examples of his condescending attitude, please?

I know that he made meticulous research and he was kind of obsessed by the fact, but these 50 pages are pure literature, in my opinion.

Welcome to the Forum

I think Capote had to research in that manner for the novel to have any credibility; otherwise, all of us here would have been attacking him for "making it up to suit himself". Reseach alone does not make a book. Like you said, his writing is beautiful and what makes this book a work of "literature" rather than a biographical work of Perry and Dick.

[color="blue"]Lets just say that I speeded through the book Sometimes I wanted Capote to quit describing what Perry was thinking about, and just get on with telling "what really happened on that fateful night/morning".

That is interesting because I was more interested in finding out how things shaped (including the people involved).

Why did Capote choose this as a motto to the book? Does he wants us to have mercy with the killers?! Mercy with the victims? Mercy with... anybody involved?

I finished reading the book only couple of hours ago so things have not settled in my head yet but I think it was important to have the last chapter to tie up all the lose ends because this book is not about what happened to the Cutler family but how and why it happened. Also, Capote was not interested in simply telling a story in my opinion. His work was very loyal to the actual events so he had to carry on telling us all his findings and events related to the incident.

And, I think, it is in this chapter that we can find the answer to your question above: Mercy for all. I will not use the word "victim" here because it opens up a whole new discussion as to who are the real victims here and so on. However, I think Capote was posing the question whether we could punish someone for not showing any mercy by not showing any mercy to them in return. It is a very sensitive issue and to which I have no answer myself personally.

Also, the title of the book is very interesting as well. One can very easily believe that the family was killed in cold blood but what about death penalty supported by books of law? Would these not be considered "cold blooded" as well? And, it seems like to me that Capote was exploring the answer to this question as well.

I would like to emphasise here that I am not saying I am for or against capital punishment but simply expressing my impressions from Capote's writing.

I definitely think there is some homoeroticism in the story. If you watch the movie adaptation, this becomes even more clear.

Maybe Capote comes across in this (adds a bit of his own perception), as he was gay himself, or maybe there truly is something to it... But there is an, at times, interesting relationship between Perry and Dick.

I haven't seen the movie but I also wondered whether Capote's own tendencies were showing through but still I think there is something to their attraction to each other. Especially in Perry's case, his tendency to idolise his friends (the religious chap for example) is interesting in my opinion.

The journalist with whom both Dick and Perry got close in the last chapter was Capote himself, I presume?

[kev67]

I have started reading this. It is somewhat different to Breakfast at Tiffany's (although that book had its dark side). The only book I have read like it was Homicide by David Simon. It is strange because it is not fiction, but not exactly non-fiction either. It is definitely literature. The blurb on the cover said it was controversial from its publication, and I wondered what that controversy was. I enjoy Capote's turn of phrase. He has a sort of detached, but interested, God-like overview of the characters. Today I was reading about the daughter Nancy's admirable drive and self-organization, and her mother's inability to do anything, resulting from her depression. I wondered how ethical it was to attribute thoughts and feelings to the victims, considering that they had been real people. I wonder how accurately he pulled it off.