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Thread: Bibles view on Homosexuality

  1. #61
    dancing before the storms baddad's Avatar
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    Yes!!! Kiky, this is ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!!! People all over the world may be subjected to another artsy/fartsy financial flop if you don't contribut to the hysterical reaction generated by these spammy emails!!!!!! So act today!! Forward the spam to anyone who's computer needs to be blocked up with (fill in your own explitive here)!!!I personally suggest a mass e-filing of protests to the vatican,www.thepopeshouse.vc

  2. #62
    Moderator Logos's Avatar
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    Ack, the worst kind of spam, from people you actually know!

    Quote Originally Posted by IWilKikU
    I keep getting a spam fowarded to me by people I know (all of them devout Christians)
    Forum » Rules » FAQ » Tags » Blogs » Groups » Quizzes » e-Texts »
    ◕‿◕ currently reading Empty Mansions: The Mysterious Life of Huguette Clark, Bill Dedman (2013)

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  3. #63
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    Miranda,

    It should be OK to say any old thing about Mohammed too. Unfortunately, in many parts of the world, doing so can be seriously damaging to your health. Would you prefer to see the same kinds of reaction in the Christian world to those who voice their opinion on Jesus, as was shown to Salman Rushdie after he wrote the Satanic Verses? Quite honestly, the only reason we can say mostly any old thing about Jesus in the West, is because us dissenters have had the courage to stand up for reason and freedom against a persecuting church and state in the past. We've been through the burning of heretics and the drowning of witches, and we can now see that those reactions were totally despicable, even though they were inspired by the bible's teachings. The freedom we have today in the West was hard won by those who fought against religious fanaticism. We still have a long way to go to make it safe to say what you want about Mohammed. And it is even becoming more difficult to say what you want about Jesus.
    Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain

    The preachers deal with men of straw, as they are men of straw themselves - Henry David Thoreau

    The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason - Benjamin Franklin

    The teaching of the church, theoretically astute, is a lie in practice and a compound of vulgar superstitions and sorcery - Leo Tolstoy

  4. #64
    The Yodfather Stanislaw's Avatar
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    Why is it considered freedom when one attakcs something that they don't fully comprehend, and it is considered harrasment when a christian does it?

    ---------------
    Stanislaw Lem
    1921 - 2006, Rest In Peace.
    "Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible"

  5. #65
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    Stanislaw,

    1) Attacking an idea, or a concept, should be permitted shoudn't it? Or should we have a more Orwellian society?

    2) The burning of witches or heretics shouldn't be permitted. I don't think it is adequately described under the term 'harrassment'.
    Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain

    The preachers deal with men of straw, as they are men of straw themselves - Henry David Thoreau

    The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason - Benjamin Franklin

    The teaching of the church, theoretically astute, is a lie in practice and a compound of vulgar superstitions and sorcery - Leo Tolstoy

  6. #66
    The Yodfather Stanislaw's Avatar
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    You just contradicted yourself,

    If a non-christian is allowed to attack and idea or concept, than it would be wrong to not allow christians the same freedom.

    ---------------
    Stanislaw Lem
    1921 - 2006, Rest In Peace.
    "Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible"

  7. #67
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    I have no problem with Christians attacking concepts or ideas.
    Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain

    The preachers deal with men of straw, as they are men of straw themselves - Henry David Thoreau

    The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason - Benjamin Franklin

    The teaching of the church, theoretically astute, is a lie in practice and a compound of vulgar superstitions and sorcery - Leo Tolstoy

  8. #68
    dancing before the storms baddad's Avatar
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    Censorship of any kind, except that specifically targeted to promote hate against an identifiable group, should never be allowed. No voice, no person, should ever be silenced from fear of persecution for their ideas. There are no addendums to this rule, there are few exceptions. Freedom to speak is one of the few freedoms humans must always maintain. If we don't like what someone says, fine, your are allowed that. But 6.5 billion humans on this planet have 6.5 billion different perspectives. All of these, with few exceptions, are valid. No one voice has the right answers to every question. No one voice should be allowed to dictate the morality of speech, art, media, etc. I for one will fight to my last breath to preserve this right and to expend every effort to extend this right throughout the world. Freedom is not some artsy/fartsy concept but the basis of our human existence. Freedom of speech's abuse horrifies most individuals on the planet, but many fear speaking out, fear reprisal by their governments, their church, or their maniacal leaders. Censorship is disgusting, a crime against humanity, a foolish ploy by those who fear the truth of their own stance will be compromised by rational thinking people.

  9. #69
    dancing before the storms baddad's Avatar
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    ....P.S. Uhh.....Stan.......your gelatin.....uh, avatar, seems to be.........molting??

  10. #70
    The Yodfather Stanislaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baddad
    ....P.S. Uhh.....Stan.......your gelatin.....uh, avatar, seems to be.........molting??
    Well he is a freshly baked pizza thing, what else could he do?


    Now back on topic:

    What would be the limits of freedom of speech, technically it could be argued that one is allowed to preach that the holocaust never happened because of freedom of speech?

    ---------------
    Stanislaw Lem
    1921 - 2006, Rest In Peace.
    "Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible"

  11. #71
    dancing before the storms baddad's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Stanislaw]Well he is a freshly baked pizza thing, what else could he do? QUOTE]


    uhhh....Stan....I said, MOLTING, ...not MELTING!

  12. #72
    dancing before the storms baddad's Avatar
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    Got excited over this issue, mixed up ramble......

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislaw
    Now back on topic:

    What would be the limits of freedom of speech, technically it could be argued that one is allowed to preach that the holocaust never happened because of freedom of speech?
    Canada has a specific law against the very thing actually, but it has been extremely difficult to prosecute.

    So yeah, sure, freedom of speech would allow for this delusional approach to history to be spoken of. And why not? So a few people listen, pretend history never happened. It is obviously their delusion, their fantasy, it will not shake the world, or cause great damage. Most people will not listen, they know history, it is recorded and will not be forgotten. And those that know the truth will make their displeasure well known to those espousing such nonsense, they will be shunned for their madness, made social pariahs. But to put limits on what people say is to limit what they think, and I can not abide that under (almost) any circumstances.

    But the holocaust is one of, but not the worst case, of slaughter in history, but is deemed 'untouchable', a holy grail never to be sullied by using the word to describe any other atrocities. The very word holocaust is RESERVED, never to be discussed except in the most reverential tones for any reason. Well, what about the 10 million Stalin slaughtered? What about the tens of thousands Miloshovich slaughtered? What about the genocide with the tutsis, 800,000 slaughtered? No one is prevented from discussing those atrocities, these holocausts. But the actual WORD, 'holocaust', well now, use it at your own peril if you are not directly referring to the WWll slaughter.

    The world freaks out if anyone speaks about the holocaust or uses the term in any way not associated with the horrific slaughter that took place in Europe. But ' Holocausts' are happening today, this very minute, and people are denying it, people are ignoring it, and no one is up in arms. Need I list the countries where there is currently ethnic cleansing (a soft and gentle euphism created to hide the horror of mass murder, and a term 'responsible' governments can use publicly to soften the fact that they sit idle and allow murderous slaughter to happen, because the word 'slaughter' doesn't sell well on television) , or countries which in very recent years have imploded with incredible violence against ethnic minorities?

    SO.....if someone claims (and they are) that the current slaughter in the Sudan (and elsewhere) is not happening.........do we view it the same way we would if they were taking about 'THE' holocaust? Do we enact laws designed to shut them up? The answer is a resounding NO!!..... and herein lies my peeve about limiting speech, even bull**** concerning the ......HOLOCAUST......it is a misdirection away from the real problems in the world, and censorship is SO NOT the answer.

    I mean no disrespect to anyone having suffered at the hands of others, but limiting freedoms of voice and thought do not improve communiction between people.......

    Hell, there is so much to say that deserves well thought out argument rather than this short little 'pet peeve' spew........my apologies....

  13. #73
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    I think Islam has different culture, which Mohammad built. He managed to established himself as a holly prophet, last to come but sit in number one rank of all God's prophets. Also, the middle east (where this belief rooted and expand) got different culture and condition..There's no industrial revolution there, no Reinassance (sp), etc.

    When this one time the Time magazine put a carton sketch of young Mohammad, many muslims people in my country bought it, they were so curios cause none ever know what he looks like, and yet they also felt furious at the same time that a magazine have the guts to do that since the prophet is considered almost as holy as God...and who can draw God's face????
    Last edited by subterranean; 04-13-2005 at 08:24 PM.


    "there are people in the world so hungry that God can not appear to them except in the form of bread"

    Mahatma Gandhi

  14. #74
    The Yodfather Stanislaw's Avatar
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    I completely agree with you, I think the term Holocaust should be applied to all of those genocides. The problem is that the holocaust has taken on a new meaning, and seems to be apllied ony to the Jewish peoples, I understand what they went through was terrible, however the polish, ukrainian, chekoslovakian and french went through it too. And aside from the more modern holocausts you mentioned, there is also Cambodia.

    I think cencorship is a sign of ignorance, and a fear that the truth cannot be defended. Perhaps this is to protect half truths. (I am not saying that the holocaust didn't happen just to clear things up, my family did expierience loss during the Holocaust in Europe).

    Quote Originally Posted by baddad
    Canada has a specific law against the very thing actually, but it has been extremely difficult to prosecute.

    So yeah, sure, freedom of speech would allow for this delusional approach to history to be spoken of. And why not? So a few people listen, pretend history never happened. It is obviously their delusion, their fantasy, it will not shake the world, or cause great damage. Most people will not listen, they know history, it is recorded and will not be forgotten. And those that know the truth will make their displeasure well known to those espousing such nonsense, they will be shunned for their madness, made social pariahs. But to put limits on what people say is to limit what they think, and I can not abide that under (almost) any circumstances.

    But the holocaust is one of, but not the worst case, of slaughter in history, but is deemed 'untouchable', a holy grail never to be sullied by using the word to describe any other atrocities. The very word holocaust is RESERVED, never to be discussed except in the most reverential tones for any reason. Well, what about the 10 million Stalin slaughtered? What about the tens of thousands Miloshovich slaughtered? What about the genocide with the tutsis, 800,000 slaughtered? No one is prevented from discussing those atrocities, these holocausts. But the actual WORD, 'holocaust', well now, use it at your own peril if you are not directly referring to the WWll slaughter.

    The world freaks out if anyone speaks about the holocaust or uses the term in any way not associated with the horrific slaughter that took place in Europe. But ' Holocausts' are happening today, this very minute, and people are denying it, people are ignoring it, and no one is up in arms. Need I list the countries where there is currently ethnic cleansing (a soft and gentle euphism created to hide the horror of mass murder, and a term 'responsible' governments can use publicly to soften the fact that they sit idle and allow murderous slaughter to happen, because the word 'slaughter' doesn't sell well on television) , or countries which in very recent years have imploded with incredible violence against ethnic minorities?

    SO.....if someone claims (and they are) that the current slaughter in the Sudan (and elsewhere) is not happening.........do we view it the same way we would if they were taking about 'THE' holocaust? Do we enact laws designed to shut them up? The answer is a resounding NO!!..... and herein lies my peeve about limiting speech, even bull**** concerning the ......HOLOCAUST......it is a misdirection away from the real problems in the world, and censorship is SO NOT the answer.

    I mean no disrespect to anyone having suffered at the hands of others, but limiting freedoms of voice and thought do not improve communiction between people.......

    Hell, there is so much to say that deserves well thought out argument rather than this short little 'pet peeve' spew........my apologies....

    ---------------
    Stanislaw Lem
    1921 - 2006, Rest In Peace.
    "Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible"

  15. #75
    The Yodfather Stanislaw's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=baddad]
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislaw
    Well he is a freshly baked pizza thing, what else could he do? QUOTE]


    uhhh....Stan....I said, MOLTING, ...not MELTING!
    Molting, melting whatevah!

    ---------------
    Stanislaw Lem
    1921 - 2006, Rest In Peace.
    "Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible"

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