It seems to me that people use this bad world as an excuse to disbelieve in a good God, but does a bad world necessitate the absence of a good God?
I don't think it's reasonable
It seems to me that people use this bad world as an excuse to disbelieve in a good God, but does a bad world necessitate the absence of a good God?
I don't think it's reasonable
Last edited by Christian; 03-12-2009 at 11:15 AM.
I guess the reasoning behind it lies in God's omnipotence.
God is omnipotent - God is thus capable of everything - God is capable of defeating evil.
If God is Good, why does he allow evil to exist? Why does he let the world suffer? Why doesn't he just bring Heaven to earth and be done with it?
I don't say this is right, I don't say omnipotence means that God is capable of everything, I just say that I think this might be the reasoning behind using the Bad World as an argument to claim the non-existence of a Good God.
It is not too late, to be wild for roundabouts - to be wild for life
Wolfsheim - It is not too late
Yes that would definately be the reason, but does that nature of God necessitate that he change the world? What if his good nature were compromised in destroying all evil? perhaps there is a greater good to be achieved in allowing it to run its course.
Its just as though if you and I and everyone on this board lived in a perfect world and I was God(its not perfect because of that, but for arguments sake...) and you decided to rebel against my authority. You assembled the people of the board together and conspired against me, telling all sorts of lies about my nature. Would I then prove myself true and good by destroying you?
Perhaps evil needs to run its course to show the goodness of God's nature
In your example:
No. But you would proof* yourself true and good by destroying the evil in me.
Or maybe, if you think "destroy" and "good" don't go together, by making me see rebellion is bad, BEFORE I go about and kill and plunder and rape and whatever else you can imagine.
I can see the idea of opposites you use: for good to be truly good, we must see what truly bad is like. I just don't see why this has to be the case. We have the gift of imagination, we can imagine what bad is like without the world to really be that bad.
And after all, if we're talking about a Good God - why can't he just be good without us having to realise he is being Good? Do we really need to be thankful - can't we just live in a Good world without knowing how Good it is?
There is of course always the possibility that this is the Best of all possible Worlds... I highly doubt it though.
It reminds me of Gabriel in the movie Constantine. That character (in my interpretation of the movie) wanted evil to rule the land, so more people would turn to God...
Ok, maybe not exactly... but that is how the last scene struck me to be: Gabriel choosing to help evil to make God more popular...[Gabriel holds Constantine helpless]
Gabriel: You're handed this precious gift, right? Each one of you granted redemption from the Creator - murderers, rapists, and molesters - all of you, you just have to repent, and God takes you into His bosom. In all the worlds in all the universe, no other creature can make such a boast, save man. It's not fair.
[leans closer]
Gabriel: If sweet, sweet God loves you so, then I will make you worthy of His love. I've been watching for a long time. It's only in the face of horror that you truly find your nobler selves. And you can be so noble. So, I'll bring you pain, I'll bring you horror, so that you may rise above it. So that those of you who survive this reign of hell on earth will be worthy of God's love.
John Constantine: Gabriel, you're insane!
*not sure, proof or prove
Last edited by Sapphire; 03-12-2009 at 12:01 PM.
It is not too late, to be wild for roundabouts - to be wild for life
Wolfsheim - It is not too late
Maybe it isn't reasonable. However, it has nothing to do with literature either.
There are enough writers and poets who have touched directly/indirectly on this subject. But I guess you can say that of anything - and saying this would make anything literature would be unreasonable...
OK, it is not stated here in a way that it would have something to do with literature. And this is a literature forum, thus...
It is not too late, to be wild for roundabouts - to be wild for life
Wolfsheim - It is not too late
Well God did destroy the human race except for Noah and his family because the world was growing too evil. The world is the way it is because we are given free choice to be the way we want to be. It is possible that there must be a breaking point because there was before.
God is indeed a good God, but I dont think that is a valid argument for the evil world in which we live. Not at all.
I agree with Sapphire in that evil is a way to put more emphasis on God, simply because there must be polar opposites that reflect each other. We think the world is bad because we have a good God, but would we feel the same way if we did not believe in a God? Or if we belived in an evil God? Could that be possible?
Story without a name
A desert journey, that we became
Another test of our power
Overcoming on a black day
I disagree very much with the "necessity of evil" argument - that position makes evil necessary, and I do not believe it is. The only "necessary" thing in existence needs to be God - everything else (evil included) is unnecessary. Evil is a consequence of our free will. Simply eliminating it won't work in God's plan. If God is good - as the Bible asserts Him to be, then it follows that there must be a reason He allows it to exist. And, this is something we should be greatful for, for if God simply eliminated all evil then all of us would cease to exist; by God's pure and holy standard, we are all sinners. That's part of the catch. Those who insist that God eliminate all evil must have the audacity to assume that they are exempt from that classification entirely. How can that be?Originally Posted by verum
I do not think evil needs to exist for me to appreciate good; obviously, though, because evil does exist, it does tend to heighten our awareness of good, and by contrast, to increase its value - but I don't think good needs evil in order to be understood.
"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
Anyone ever read A Clockwork Orange?
prove it, please
Why do you assume God is a separate entity from you or the rest of the world for that matter? An entity that some how will set everything all right?
In a total view, everything is as it needs to be and adding valuation and dualism to the mix is what creates the debate. You can not have good with out its opposite evil, just as you can’t have black without white or wet without dry. To pick only one proves the definition and existence of the other. To defend one, immediately makes you acknowledge the other.
So if there is a “good” God in your eyes, then there is also it’s opposite, a “bad” God.
I completely disagree. Without evil you CANNOT appreciate good.
I'm losing all those stupid games
That I swore I'd never play
Not if bad entered the world due to Satans' fall from grace and man & woman's desire to follow Satan to achieve their desire to be their own god. At that point, God gave his creation what they "wanted," that is, a world system of self-actualization. Hence, death, sickness, misery, sadness, etc. God also gave us a savior, and the following promise:
Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."
God gave man free will. God allows man to choose evil, if that's what he wants. It's not God who created evil, it's not God who perpetuates evil, but man by choosing it over good.
I definitely think so. Think about it. What good would summer be if you hadn't been in school all year? It would just be more of the same. It's the concept of yin and yang. A hot shower would just get boring and steamy if you hadn't ever been in the cold to feel the contrast.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote