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Thread: Does anybody else feel the human race is worthless?

  1. #1

    Does anybody else feel the human race is worthless?

    After reading The Mysterious Stranger it has finally dawned on me how worthless we are as human beings! Kurt Vonnegut emphasized this before his death and he is absolutely right. After all the violence and abuse and war and dirty money and rape and murder and drugs. Shouldn't we just end this? Pretty soon the Earth will be so overpopulated that there will be no more resources for us to consume and destroy. It is sad. I see it everyday. I work a bad job and I live in a bad town and I've traveled and I still see this pain and nonsense. It happens all the time. Every single day. Good things do happen rarely, but usually they get run over. When one lives through a bad childhood I believe ones bull**** sensor begins to run properly and one can take away all the glamor and bull**** and begin to see things for what they really are.

    I look in the mirror and i see a pig. I look at my grandmother and i see a pig. Every face I stare into I see a deceitful pig staring back at me. OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK. Some may claim I'm insane, but take the time to think about it. Year after year day after day second after second there is constant pain and war and violence and there is no end in sight! Things have been getting worse even! Now we have bombs that could kill us all in a second if not less! Think about this!

    After the holocaust we claimed there would never be so much gruesome killing again, but in the 90's in Africa more than 800,000 people were slayed at one time. It doesn't stop people! It never stops. I see how piggish we are at work and at home and at school and you do too. It does not stop. I will never have children. I will not contribute to this sick experiment.

  2. #2
    Sweet farewell, Good Nite
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    Your problem is that your starting point is 'the big picture,' but that has no reality, because real change happens on a small scale. Yeah sure, more work needs to be done, you don't have to tell me that. I'm more interested in what you have done to make a difference in changing the big picture. I'm sure you can come up with some examples, and if you can't, well, then shame on you. But it's not too late either. Get to it Tonto.


    "The greatest offense to humanity is the man without a purpose." Ayn Rand
    Last edited by jon1jt; 02-22-2009 at 01:33 AM. Reason: add
    "He was nauseous with regret when he saw her face again, and when, as of yore, he pleaded and begged at her knees for the joy of her being. She understood Neal; she stroked his hair; she knew he was mad."
    ---Jack Kerouac, On The Road: The Original Scroll

  3. #3
    spiritus ubi vult spirat weltanschauung's Avatar
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    its not worthless, its just been mislead and misused for way too long. its time to take the power back, dont you think?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBGGAjMg9vw

  4. #4
    Registered User Zee.'s Avatar
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    People tend to look at things on a scale much larger than day to day happenings.

    War, rape etc etc
    those are "big" words.

    The reasons why humanity is not worthless?
    The charity that is shown. The kindness that is shown. The friendliness that is shown. The compassion which is given.

    You can't view it in an "absolute" way. The world isn't "worthless". Sure, terrible things happen, and worthless people exist.
    But that doesn't account for the good.

    Also, the book you read didn't inform you of how you're feeling right now. It may have brought what you have already thought to your attention, but it is not a new "idea".
    Has it ever been amazing? the place is too big to reach such expectations. All we can do is try and make the best of "our" world. Atleast then itll help the bigger picture. Change starts within.

    Everyone wants to change the world you know. Half the time they're the ones with the problem, not the "world".

  5. #5
    Sweet farewell, Good Nite
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    Quote Originally Posted by weltanschauung View Post
    its not worthless, its just been mislead and misused for way too long. its time to take the power back, dont you think?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBGGAjMg9vw


    I agree, weltans. Public indifference turned inside out becomes acquiescence to those who have misused the power of the people. We are our own worst enemy.
    "He was nauseous with regret when he saw her face again, and when, as of yore, he pleaded and begged at her knees for the joy of her being. She understood Neal; she stroked his hair; she knew he was mad."
    ---Jack Kerouac, On The Road: The Original Scroll

  6. #6
    Overlord of Cupcak3s 1n50mn14's Avatar
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    Next time you feel the need to make such an extreme argument, please take the time to phrase it in a coherent, calm and intelligent fashion... the OINK OINK OINK OINK doesn't really help your argument... instead, it shows that even YOU get angry, YOU get pissed off, you lose your cool and have to blow it off in a small way- even if it's just writing in all capitals.

    I have to agree with Lima. Vonnegut's book can not have done this to you. Maybe it was a final straw. But it's Just a Book. It is his opinion as an author. His bias, his views. Not yours. Form your own opinion based off of what you personally see. Yes, horrible, horrible things happen in the world- always have, always will. Human nature, unfortunately. But we are not a worthless race. Otherwise, certain members wouldn't try to redeem the entire race.

    Compassion, love, friendship and a variety of other redeeming characteristics exist. We are a pretty suck-tastic race as a whole. But oh no, not worthless. I can't bring myself to believe that, when there are strangers who have taken me in off of the street, when I've seen friends offer each other a helping hand, when I've seen the work people put into helping others. Dedicating their lives to it, portions of their energy to it, etc. When I see the struggle many individuals go through on a day to day basis, without worrying about war, genocide, global warming, and other atrocities committed against humans by other humans, I don't think we are worthless. The INDIVIDUALS who set horrendous things into motion are not worthless, either. Mislead, confused and backwards is all we are. We need some fixing, and it might never happen, and as the atrocities grow steadily in volume, we may, someday, become worthless.

    I live in a bad town. I've travelled, and I've seen some bad places. But even in the heart of London, I've had complete strangers help me. In a Toronto alleyway, when nearly mugged by a man, I've seen a change of heart. WE need to be the ones to show the compassion to make the changes! If we can not believe, YES, it WILL get worse until it isn't worth changing the world, until it isn't possible. But the blatant cynicism from people such as yourself DO NOT help the situation!!! Lack of belief exacerbates the entire problem! Try extending a helping hand, and, I quote, Being the Change you Wish to See.

    Yours was an extremely biased post, and I am sad for you that there aren't people in your life that make you believe in the hope and compassion that exists in the hearts of men.

    I'm sorry if that came across as rude. But this is an issue I feel quite strongly about.
    Naked except for a cigarette, you let your mind drift and forget your disbelief. Feel the chill down your back and the flutter of wings through dandelion fields, and forget the pull of gravity in a night without stars.

    I lack eloquence and commitment to my arguments. They are half baked, and I will begin passionately, and then abandon them.

  7. #7
    Sweet farewell, Good Nite
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    I think to be fair to the OP, it is pretty easy for people to make this kind of assessment about the world nowadays. Nobel Prize Winner John Paul Sartre's novel Nausea comes to pretty much the same conclusion, blaming the problems of the world on human beings who feel discontented, alienated, and marooned in their own bodies. But even Sartre recognized that change is possible when we're willing to take 'responsibility' for our own actions---and, more often the case, for lack of action.
    "He was nauseous with regret when he saw her face again, and when, as of yore, he pleaded and begged at her knees for the joy of her being. She understood Neal; she stroked his hair; she knew he was mad."
    ---Jack Kerouac, On The Road: The Original Scroll

  8. #8
    Sipping the Tea a_little_wisp's Avatar
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    "You're an interesting species, an interesting mix. You're capable of such beautiful dreams and such horrible nightmares. You feel so lost, so cut off, so alone, only you're not. See, in all our searching, the only thing we've found that makes the emptiness bearable is each other."

    -Contact


    There is so much horror in the world today, but that makes it that much more important for men to be stronger, more moral, more adamant in their belief in love. Don't let one book bring you down - don't lose hope yet. We're stronger than that. If you give up on mankind now, you give up on all the good people trying to stop those terrible things from happening, who want to save the world. If we say "eff this place" to the world, we're that much more to blame for its destruction.

    I look at my mother and I see absolute beauty, absolute strength. She had my brother when she was eighteen, me when she was twenty-one - I couldn't imagine having a kid right now, at the same age. But she did it, and she loved us, as my father did, and against all odds, against the poverty she'd faced in the years before, she managed to feed us, and clothe us, and keep a roof over our head, and wonder of all wonders, raise us to see the world as a beautiful and magical place. And it is, oh god it is. She devoted her whole life- time she could have spent in school - to raising my brother, my two little sisters, and all. She is absolutely giving, and I have yet to see one day that she has lived solely for herself.

    I've seen that same quality of selflessness in other people, many other people.

    I go home and watch the news or read something awful in the papers and I feel helpless -

    But the next day, I see one of my managers pay for a poor man's food or sit down to talk with a lonely old lady.

    Limajean said:

    "All we can do is try and make the best of "our" world. Atleast then itll help the bigger picture. Change starts within."
    And that is oh-so true. One smile changes the course of one person's day, one act of kindness brightens the whole world around us - a chain reaction is set off.

    I've known people with terrible childhoods, who have been adopted, who have been ignored by their parents, who have been raped -

    And who still see beauty in the world, who still want to save people, to save the world.

    I've been a waitress for some time now, and I can honestly say I've never had a downright mean customer- and isn't that something? Sure, some have been dissatisfied at times, but never rude, never cruel. I believe you can kill with kindness, that the more you smile, the less they feel like frowning, the less they have the ability to.


    And we get walked over all the time. I help a girl out at work and she steals my tips - so what? It's three bucks. Maybe she needs it more than me. Or maybe she just wants to go get drunk with it- if so, that's her life. I'm the better, stronger person, I didn't let her change me, and one day when she's alone and her college days have been wasted (s'cool to drink on the weekends, but dawg, every day of the week?), maybe she'll realize who she is and maybe things will change. Maybe things won't. I hope they will.

    There's always. always. Hope.

    I am so sorry for whatever you've been through to make the world seem so bleak to you, but believe me when I say that change happens - although not without us giving it a hand.



    CHORONZON: I am a dire world, prey-stalking, lethal prowler.

    MORPHEUS: I am a hunter, horse-mounted, wolf-stabbing.

    CHORONZON: I am a horsefly, horse-stinging, hunter-throwing.

    MORPHEUS: I am a spider, fly-consuming, eight legged.

    CHORONZON: I am a snake, spider-devouring, posion-toothed.

    MORPHEUS: I am an ox, snake-crushing, heavy footed.

    CHORONZON: I am an anthrax, butcher, bacterium, warm-life destroying.

    MORPHEUS: I am a world, space-floating, life nurturing.

    CHORONZON: I am a nova, all-exploding... planet-cremating.

    MORPHEUS: I am the Universe -- all things encompassing, all life embracing.

    CHORONZON: I am Anti-Life, the Beast of Judgement. I am the dark at the end of everything. The end of universes, gods, worlds... of everything. Sss. And what will you be then, Dreamlord?

    MORPHEUS: I am hope.

    - Neil Gaiman, Sandman.

    EDIT: Jon, just saw your post. I just wanted to say I agree entirely - Sartre had it right. goexistentialists...!
    Then she would run until morning to ease the ache; swifter than rain, swift as loss, racing to catch up with the time when she had known nothing at all but the sweetness of being herself.

    -- Peter S. Beagle, The Last Unicorn

  9. #9
    Registered User Zeruiah's Avatar
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    I think your feelings are simply a result of natural indignation towards the modern world. Unlike most people who you tell this to, I don't think its unreasonable at all to feel the way you do. Its simply your gut reaction to modern stupidity.

    Nevertheless, the problem with keeping this mindset is that it leaves no room for positive change. Many literary characters who feel the way you do are used merely as indicators of societal problems, but they stay paralyzed in self-doubt and never achieve anything. Take Dosteovsky's Fyodor Karamazov for example (In fact, I had almost thought that your post was a blatant rip-off of some Dostoevskian character like Marmeladov because of the OINK OINK OINK onomatopoeia and your Sturm und Drang-esque use of exclamation marks. It would have made a very witty troll post if it was.).

    I'm not saying to start a coup-d'état or anything, I just think that you should follow jon1jt's advice and begin small scale. Humans are capable of positive strength and achievement, but it won't happen overnight or in a big, sudden bang.
    "For a man to conquer himself is the first and noblest of all victories." - Plato

    "Out of damp and gloomy days, out of solitude, out of loveless words directed at us, conclusions grow up in us like fungus: one morning they are there, we know not how, and they gaze upon us, morose and gray. Woe to the thinker who is not the gardener but only the soil of the plants that grow in him."- Friedrich Nietzsche

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    i don't konw who was right,i just want to say all is the same.Human being were birth with sins,since we cry to the world we have been always suck in the lust.people want to get what they don't have,this demand came from the inner never stop.But we should consider another question that human can't develop better if we don't first care aboult our benefits.Selfish makes the huamn advance,love makes the world better.

  11. #11
    Registered User Zee.'s Avatar
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    No one said that we as humanity are meant to be rolled up in compassion, love and kindness. That is what makes us so complex. The fact that we can feel such amazing things, and do amazing things yet have the ability to turn around and destroy all of it by some kind of evil. And isn't that where the change, if at all, should occur? in the ability to choose? better yet, can it occur, should it occur? or is it undeniably part of our world. Like I said, change starts within. But on that note, no one is perfect, people do "terrible" things. Terrible things happen to people. Is this life? is there much point in working towards some kind of absolute purity within our world? or does the small sightings of kindness, those moments of compassion and love - are they what really embodies us as human?
    Because in my opinion, that is what we should be proud of.
    Whoever said pain should not exist and is unnatural is barking up the wrong tree. Why do we think that we have the right to live in a world free of war, free of pain, free of "evil"? people tend to think it should be a given right to live free of all that. Nothing is deserved, it is earned. Put the effort in to making the change you want to see, start with yourself. We all should.




    I read over all of what i said, in my previous posts, it was littered with mistakes. My apologies

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavebrownhaira View Post

    After the holocaust we claimed there would never be so much gruesome killing again


    Did we?

    That was a terrible event in history, and it was acknowledged as being so. But you are targeting all of humanity for one man's ( and undoubtably others ) evil.

    But what about me? what about you? what about those who suffered, what about everyone who feels sick at the thought of the holocaust? what about those who could never, ever, do such a terrible thing to others. You're focusing on hate, and you're disregarding most of humanity.

    People acknowledged the holocaust as being evil.
    The UN was formed in response to it, and they never said such a thing would not occur again, I mean, how could they?


    Also, i'm sorry you see life as a "sick" experiment.


    Life is beautiful.

  12. #12
    Suzerain of Cost&Caution SleepyWitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon1jt View Post
    Your problem is that your starting point is 'the big picture,' but that has no reality, because real change happens on a small scale. Yeah sure, more work needs to be done, you don't have to tell me that. I'm more interested in what you have done to make a difference in changing the big picture. I'm sure you can come up with some examples, and if you can't, well, then shame on you. But it's not too late either. Get to it Tonto.

    I like your attitude, jon.

    brownhair, I can see where you're coming from. I agree that things have even got worse lately and it bores me no end to watch the news just to learn about another war etc. But jon is right. I find it helps me to collect newspaper clippings about 'good' news that make me optimistic, like a guy opening a bicycle rental in Paris (=less waste of resources) or a new NGO that gives African woman credit to buy a cow. etc. There are lots of positive things that happen on a small scale. Even your own attitude and the way you interact with others can make a difference.

    edit: PS: pigs are very intelligent and cute

  13. #13
    precious... subterranean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weltanschauung View Post
    I had to pause Zeppelin's In The Evening for that. Fair trade.

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavebrownhaira

    .................................................. ................................
    You remind me of someone from the past. He used to be a member.
    Last edited by subterranean; 02-22-2009 at 07:43 AM. Reason: adding comment and typo (as always)


    "there are people in the world so hungry that God can not appear to them except in the form of bread"

    Mahatma Gandhi

  14. #14
    Metamorphosing Pensive's Avatar
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    I have yet to meet something/someone worthless....
    I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihavebrownhaira View Post
    After reading The Mysterious Stranger it has finally dawned on me how worthless we are as human beings! Kurt Vonnegut emphasized this before his death and he is absolutely right. After all the violence and abuse and war and dirty money and rape and murder and drugs. Shouldn't we just end this? Pretty soon the Earth will be so overpopulated that there will be no more resources for us to consume and destroy. It is sad. I see it everyday. I work a bad job and I live in a bad town and I've traveled and I still see this pain and nonsense. It happens all the time. Every single day. Good things do happen rarely, but usually they get run over. When one lives through a bad childhood I believe ones bull**** sensor begins to run properly and one can take away all the glamor and bull**** and begin to see things for what they really are.

    I look in the mirror and i see a pig. I look at my grandmother and i see a pig. Every face I stare into I see a deceitful pig staring back at me. OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK. Some may claim I'm insane, but take the time to think about it. Year after year day after day second after second there is constant pain and war and violence and there is no end in sight! Things have been getting worse even! Now we have bombs that could kill us all in a second if not less! Think about this!

    After the holocaust we claimed there would never be so much gruesome killing again, but in the 90's in Africa more than 800,000 people were slayed at one time. It doesn't stop people! It never stops. I see how piggish we are at work and at home and at school and you do too. It does not stop. I will never have children. I will not contribute to this sick experiment.
    Human being isn't worthless.~

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