Satanic Verses

[planet earth]

The Atheist,

Did you read any of the verses I placed. They are from the Quran too.
Where is you're comment on them?

But anyway,and despite I know you will ignore the following verses too but I will discuss the matter with you. Allah as I have said before is Justice. Justice is one of His names. For everything He has a cause. If you tell your son not to make friends with someone there is a reason. But first of all you have to tell him that not all people are alike. This is exactly what God said. He said some Jews, and Christians, as well as some Muslims are not good. Don't therefore make friends with those who are not good. Then He clarifies that not all of them are alike saying these beautiful verses:

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right. 3:113-115

Then Allah elaborates to explain to us why wouldn't we be friends with those who are not good from them. The reason is simple. It is just because they do not like us while we like them and love them as you were pointing to. THe fact is we love them, sorrowfully they don't as clarified here:

Lo! ye are those who love them though they love you not, and ye believe in all the Scripture. When they fall in with you they say: We believe; but when they go apart they bite their finger-tips at you, for rage. Say: Perish in your rage! Lo! Allah is Aware of what is hidden in (your) breasts. 3-119

THen Dear Allah sums the matter up for people. and very simply tells humanity who does he forbid dealing with and whod does He not.

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those
who are just 60:8

I really hope this is clear enough. The Quran is not a book of generalizations. It is a book that explains everything to everyone. Finally, there are verses that are very difficult upon Muslims themselves, if they do wrongly. The destiny of wrong doers whether from the Muslims or elsewhere, is the same. Allah's rules are one, they never change. But his mercy embraces everyone. I really hope His mercy reaches us all of.

I know you are one of the good doers. I know you care for other Human Beings, and I think Allah put this mercy in your heart to serve Him with caring for the poor and needy here in this world. It is just that one is sometimes unaware that he is serving right in this world, while this is why we were created.

[The Atheist]

The Atheist,

Did you read any of the verses I placed. They are from the Quran too.
Where is you're comment on them?

They just describe the fact that the three sects share a common god. Which is kind of a necessity, since the quran draws on the torah.

That the book is contradictory is just another problem with the quran, it doesn't negate any other part of it.

But anyway,and despite I know you will ignore the following verses too but I will discuss the matter with you.

It's not a question of ignoring, the premises are exactly the same no matter which religion it is - it's all in the interpretation.

My only point was to show where the anti-semitic bits were. Without getting too close to politics, you'd have to admit that radical islam has mis-used those parts of the book to stir hatred just as christians used the bible to stir hatred of heretics in the past. To some degree, bible literalists still do this.

I'm not questioning your interpretation, as it seems moderate and reasonable, but the passages exist.

I really hope this is clear enough. The Quran is not a book of generalizations. It is a book that explains everything to everyone.

Which is exactly what Jews and christians tell me about their books.

..., and I think Allah put this mercy in your heart to serve Him ....

Well, one of us will be wong!

[planet earth]

The Atheist;

without being biased, I guess the Quran is a book of integrity rather than contradiciton. It is true that I am a Muslim, first by birth, then by belief, and I am proud to be so. But this does not mean that I should cancel the gift of having a mind. Therefore, I have read the Old and new Testaments. The conclusions I reached were that they are from the same source; Allah, but the Quran is more concise.

Islam, as described in the Quran, is a middle, central, balanced religion and that is what should make it differ. As you pointed radicals and fanatics are everywhere not only religion-wise, but ethnic-wise, colour-wise and so on. This has nothing to do with what the religion itself came with.

Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, came with the first peace treaty with the Jews in medina, when a jew died, and the funeral was passing by he stood up in respect to the human soul. He used to borrow money from Jews. And I do not know if you are familiar of the Stolen Shield story, when muslim stole a shield from a muslim, and because he was afraid of being caught he hid the sheild in the garden of a jew, to be found in his garden. When the matter was revealed to Prophet Muhammad, he let go of the Jew, and the muslim was to take his due punishment and the Quran said upon the incident,

O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do. 5:8

Finally, I believe that who wants His way will be guided to it. This is for certain.

[West]

NickAdams, This issue was dealt with on a website called www.islamic-awareness.org.


Here is the link to the article in response to the Alleged Satanic verses:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html



Please let me know if you get to read it and what you think. Take your time as well. And I encourage you to read the article as it will give you an excellent counter argument and refutation to the alleged Satanic verses. You can compare that to what you have already read and decide for yourself then.


PS: You might want to bookmark the website as it is very useful to people like you who are interested to know more about the QURANIC text, its history, how it was compiled, and some other polemics. It is academic and very informative website.

[West]

BTW, can I go off topic and ask my Atheist friend here a question about his Avatar? I am not sure I can just private someone unless they are the Mods and I have some forum questions. I like public communication better


I don't want this topic to be closed like the one we had going before in case my question derails the topic at hand

[The Atheist]

Fire away, the thread doesn't look too lively at this stage.

[West]

Fire away, the thread doesn't look too lively at this stage.

My friend, the question I have has no religious significance(at least to me). The pic you have in your avatar is somewhat connected to my country of Origin during when famine struck and many died of hunger and malnutrition. It can also be that the kid is from a neighbouring country but is of same ethnicity as me(we are spread and live in adjacent countries too), we can tell our own by just looking at their facial features and there is an instant recognition between us. But this is not the main reason I wanted to ask you this question: Why do you have it on? What is your message if there is one, and what were your thoughts exactly when you chose it to be your Avatar? Hope I made sense and I didn't come across as weird or ridiculous by asking this.

Seeing you are an atheist, I had an opinion of mine about the whys you had the pic on, to prove God is not merciful for letting things like that happen, but I don't want to impose my own biased perception on others who almost always happen to have a different take on issues. So, what is your answer?

PS: You can't see much but I am the guy in the Avatar.

[The Atheist]

The pic you have in your avatar is somewhat connected to my country of Origin during when famine struck and many died of hunger and malnutrition. It can also be that the kid is from a neighbouring country but is of same ethnicity as me(we are spread and live in adjacent countries too), we can tell our own by just looking at their facial features and there is an instant recognition between us.

That would be right; it's a freely- and widely-available photo used for publicity purposes. You can certainly his facial bone structure.

But this is not the main reason I wanted to ask you this question: Why do you have it on? What is your message if there is one, and what were your thoughts exactly when you chose it to be your Avatar? Hope I made sense and I didn't come across as weird or ridiculous by asking this.

Not at all - I put it there to get people to talk about it. It's actually nothing to do with atheism, but a means of drawing people to the link at the bottom of the page to help feed those kids.

Good on you for asking instead of assuming - that gets a solid 10/10 in my book - people are prone to assume things about atheists. Looking at it as you did never even occurred to me before now. I'll take that as well.

Cheers!

[NickAdams]

NickAdams, This issue was dealt with on a website called www.islamic-awareness.org.


Here is the link to the article in response to the Alleged Satanic verses:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html



Please let me know if you get to read it and what you think. Take your time as well. And I encourage you to read the article as it will give you an excellent counter argument and refutation to the alleged Satanic verses. You can compare that to what you have already read and decide for yourself then.


PS: You might want to bookmark the website as it is very useful to people like you who are interested to know more about the QURANIC text, its history, how it was compiled, and some other polemics. It is academic and very informative website.

Thanks for the link. I can't say I ever believed in the authenticity of the Satanic Verses, because I don't believe in Satan.

The validity of their argument was damaged for me with this statement of personal bias: "These derogatory names were concocted by "love-thy-neighbor", "turn-thy-cheek" Christians ..."

[West]

Thanks for the link. I can't say I ever believed in the authenticity of the Satanic Verses, because I don't believe in Satan.

The validity of their argument was damaged for me with this statement of personal bias: "These derogatory names were concocted by "love-thy-neighbor", "turn-thy-cheek" Christians ..."

Would it be wrong to hold christians(and muslims as well) to higher standards based on their beliefs? cause, I see that is what the comment which you quoted is aiming for. It is as if the writer is saying that the men behind these names were a bit hypocritical in engaging something that counters their religious philosophy - saying one thing and doing the opposite

[West]

That would be right; it's a freely- and widely-available photo used for publicity purposes. You can certainly his facial bone structure.

Not at all - I put it there to get people to talk about it. It's actually nothing to do with atheism, but a means of drawing people to the link at the bottom of the page to help feed those kids.

Good on you for asking instead of assuming - that gets a solid 10/10 in my book - people are prone to assume things about atheists. Looking at it as you did never even occurred to me before now. I'll take that as well.

Cheers!

That is noble of you. You were not scoring a point with the picture but advocating for a cause which many of us have neglected. Good for you my friend. I thought different but wanted to see if my thoughts matched your reasons for having it. And I totally missed the link you have at the bottom, never paid attention to it.

Have you had any luck with people talking about it? the pic? what stories have you read associated with the pic if any?

Kepe up the good work

[NickAdams]

Would it be wrong to hold christians(and muslims as well) to higher standards based on their beliefs? cause, I see that is what the comment which you quoted is aiming for. It is as if the writer is saying that the men behind these names were a bit hypocritical in engaging something that counters their religious philosophy - saying one thing and doing the opposite

I know what it implies, but it is done very smugly. In a few of the Quran threads that have been posted in the last week it was written that one should not judge all Muslims by the acts of extremist Muslims. If they are not acting in accordance to their religious doctrine then the are not maintaining their belief, this goes for all religions. It is not what I expect from an academic site.

[The Atheist]

Have you had any luck with people talking about it? the pic? what stories have you read associated with the pic if any?

Kepe up the good work

Cheers!

Yes, a few people have added the link to their own details, so it's working!

[West]

I know what it implies, but it is done very smugly. In a few of the Quran threads that have been posted in the last week it was written that one should not judge all Muslims by the acts of extremist Muslims. If they are not acting in accordance to their religious doctrine then the are not maintaining their belief, this goes for all religions. It is not what I expect from an academic site.

Very true. Generalizations are wrong regardless and the site is actually one of the best I have seen when it comes to Quranic text history and issues relating to it. One thing to note is that the sub-link I provided is part of the polemics section. Rebuttals can get a little heated or too passionate sometimes. The writer was particular in his language about the one group among christians, the ones who were behind the dissemination of unsubstantiated Satanic Verses in the Quran. I would have rephrased few lines to come across dispassionate but would still be singling out the group as dabbling in double standard

[0=2]

Anything that particularily attracts you to validating the authenticity of these particular works?

If your interested in Luciferian groundworks, there are many others.